Net Adept and Nets

[blackbloodtroll]

I have a few questions about the Net Adept feat, and nets.
1) If used as a melee weapon, what type of damage does it deal B, P, or S?
2) Does a PC wielding a net, with the Net Adept feat, threaten adjacent opponents?
3)What is the damage dice and critical range/modifier of a net used by a PC with the Net Adept feat?
4) Can a net be made with special materials? If so, which ones, and does that effect the break DC?
5)What can a net be enchanted with, as to say, what enchantments are available?
6) Does a folded, or unfolded net, function differently if used as a melee weapon?
7) Can a PC with the Net Adept feat, treat a net as a melee weapon for the purposes of feats/abilities/spells?
8) If used as a melee weapon, is it a touch attack, when using a net?

[HaraldKlak]

As I understand it:

1+3+6+8) It doesn't deal damage, it is still a net. Attacking with it at melee has the same effect as throwing it. In melee it makes no difference if it is folded or not. Whether or not it is a melee touch attack is unclear, but I'd say yes, since it isn't specified otherwise.

2) The text is unclear. While they describe it as a melee reach weapon, the latter part with 10 ft reach makes me wonder if it is supposed to function differently than a weapon with the reach property. My ruling would be that it can threaten adjacent foes.

4) Being made of rope, I can't find any material that can substitute it per RAW. However it might be fair to allow it made of silk or spider's silk with an increase to hit points and break DC, equivalent of what the different rope types get.

5) Sure, as a weapon it can be enchanted. Given that it doesn't deal damage, a lot of the enchantments are going to help. It might be reasonable to make a custom enchantment bonus to the break/escape DC (An idea for another custom enchantment is one that ignores freedom of movement or similar abilities).

7) He treat it as a melee weapon, so anything that affects a melee weapon should be legal (within reason of course).

[blackbloodtroll]

Is there no way to deal damage with a net?
Can you retrieve a net, that a creature is entangled by?
Can it be made of Mithral, or Dragonhide?
Can a net be made, or partly made, of a metal?
Can it be made of leather?
Can it be used as an improvised weapon, to deal damage?

[VRMH]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Is there no way to deal damage with a net?

There are ways. You can use it as an improvised whip, and simply hit people with it. And I believe the D&D description mentioned a net has little hooks to aid in the entangling. If those hooks were to be individually enhanced, a net would do some piercing damage I guess. And a flaming net would likely be spectacularly vicious...

Quote:

Can you retrieve a net, that a creature is entangled by?

What do you mean by "retrieve" in this context? You never lost the net.

Quote:

Can it be made of Mithral, or Dragonhide?

Dried dragonguts, maybe.

Quote:

Can a net be made, or partly made, of a metal?

No real-world metal wire would be flexible enough to substitute the rope, but those hooks would likely be metal.

Quote:

Can it be made of leather?

I s'pose thin leather strips could be used as the ropes.

Quote:

Can it be used as an improvised weapon, to deal damage?

Anything can be used as an improvised weapon, afaik.

[blackbloodtroll]

A net is noted as being useful against opponents within one size category. Is this true of all uses of the net, or just when using it to entangle an opponent.
Could you use a large net to entangle a huge creature?

[blackbloodtroll]

I notice people tend to shy away from the subject of nets, and the net feats. Why is that?

[Archaeik]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I have a few questions about the Net Adept feat, and nets.

1) If used as a melee weapon, what type of damage does it deal B, P, or S?
2) Does a PC wielding a net, with the Net Adept feat, threaten adjacent opponents?
3)What is the damage dice and critical range/modifier of a net used by a PC with the Net Adept feat?
4) Can a net be made with special materials? If so, which ones, and does that effect the break DC?
5)What can a net be enchanted with, as to say, what enchantments are available?
6) Does a folded, or unfolded net, function differently if used as a melee weapon?
7) Can a PC with the Net Adept feat, treat a net as a melee weapon for the purposes of feats/abilities/spells?
8) If used as a melee weapon, is it a touch attack, when using a net?

9 Is there no way to deal damage with a net?
10 Can you retrieve a net, that a creature is entangled by?
11 Can it be made of Mithral, or Dragonhide?
12 Can a net be made, or partly made, of a metal?
13 Can it be made of leather?
14 Can it be used as an improvised weapon, to deal damage?

15 A net is noted as being useful against opponents within one size category. Is this true of all uses of the net, or just when using it to entangle an opponent.
Could you use a large net to entangle a huge creature?

16 I notice people tend to shy away from the subject of nets, and the net feats. Why is that?

Melee/damage/whatever:

1)There is no such entry (or rather those entries are a dash)

Net Adept wrote:

Benefit: You can treat a net as a one-handed melee reach weapon with a 10-foot reach. Further, you take no penalty on melee attack rolls for using an unfolded net, and you can use one full-round action or two move actions to fold a net.

Normal: A net is a ranged weapon that imposes a –4 penalty on ranged attack rolls if it is unfolded. Folding a net takes a proficient user 2 rounds.

2)It already didn't threaten as a ranged weapon, there is no rules basis to say it threatens differently than any other 10ft reach weapon.

It would need to say "with a range of 10ft" to threaten both.

3/6)See answer 1. A net has no defined damage/crit information. It is defined to have a specific purpose (entangling).
Net Adept appears to allow you to gain the ability to threaten with the net as a melee roll instead of a ranged roll. This change also makes it a 1H melee weapon instead of a 2H ranged weapon. (you could still use it as ranged, but it retains the penalty if unfolded)
(Obviously this also means that when attacking as a melee weapon, you use strength -- although, not stated, it should probably be finesseable)
Anyway, point being all the feat does is change the attack type (and remove a penalty), but no other functionality.
The Net and Trident feat further changes the attack to be a 1H ranged attack. (although you could not make this attack as an AoO going strictly by RAW)

7)I'm a bit curious which specific ones you're thinking about? (*coughcough magus coughcough*)
Anyway, I'd say yes.

8)Since it's not doing damage and only threatens at 10ft, I don't see why this would change.
Further, the feat says nothing about changing it from a touch attack.

9/14)What you're asking about here should be covered by the Improvised Weapons rules.
I'm not sure what I'd rule it to be equivalent to, but honestly (and unfortunately) I think it's something close to Folded=Sap Unfolded=Whip(but 2H and only 10ft). This means nonlethal damage.

10)I don't see a provision for this in the rules. However, typically, as with things like Grapple, the "controller" is able to release it without issue.
The only difference in this situation is that you would actually need to retrieve your item, so I'd say it's a move action to release(and retrieve) your net, provoking from anyone currently threatening you.

Special Materials/Enchants
4/13/11)Agreed that there is no rules basis to substitute much here. A silk net should gain the relative properties of an equivalent rope(lighter weight/stronger).
In general terms, I don't see why a net can't be made out of many of the things you mention... it would be difficult, and somewhat costly, but depending on your DM, HP/hardness/DCs should probably adjust in some way.

12)Metal: thing is, I'm inclined to say yes. Nets are made of ropes. Ropes are made of woven strands.
Provided you deem it possible to acquire such an finely worked(industrial era) item as extremely thin strands of metal, it should be within reason that it can be further crafted into a net.
(If you want to worry about overall flexibility and penalties for such, that would work too. BUT, this really is getting into custom items)

5)Enchants: As was pointed out, many things are rider effects that only activate if you deal damage. However, I would remind you that a net is a ranged weapon, and as such should be restricted to that list.
(Net Adept merely allows you to treat it as melee)

15)Here's the rub... A net does one thing: entangle. It is useful within 1 size category because either a creature will be able to fit through the holes, or the net won't be large enough to be a hindrance.
RAW, I'd say this applies to all uses except improvised weapon rules where the net is not functioning as a net.
So yes, you can use a Large net to entangle a huge creature. However, you cannot do this without at least taking Net Adept because a Large net would be a "higher than 2H" ranged weapon for a medium creature. Net Adept will reduce this to a Large 1H weapon wielded in 2H. And don't forget the -2 penalty.

16)I think nets are one of the few weapon choices that are truly "exotic" in that you need to research the rules and actually learn how it functions. I think a lot of people just don't consider it worthwhile to put in the effort, so they ignore the option.
And I'll admit, it's a bit confusing.

[blackbloodtroll]

I thinks this help some. I have been wanting to build a character who focuses on using nets, but really I need to know all about what a net can, and cannot do.