Shield Slam Feat Question!?

[Lady Melo]

Shield Slam {Feat}

This feat allows you to...
"Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check..."

I am unsure exactly how this works do you...(Examples assume the character has a +9 to hit with shield bash, and a +11 combat maneuver bonus for bull rush attempts)
1)Use the exact result of your attack for the combat maneuver check {(Die roll 13, final attack 22 versus AC if that hits 22 versus CMD)}

2)Apply your bullrush modifiers to the same d20 result of the attack roll. {(Die roll 13, 22 attack versus AC if that hits, 13 plus bull rush modifier 24 versus CMD.)}

3)Make a new bull rush attempt but may use your attack modifier {(Die roll 13, 22 attack versus AC if that hits roll d20 add +9 versus CMD)}

4)Roll and Modify the bullrush attempt as per normal ({Die roll of 13, if 22 hits AC, die roll +11 versus CMD)}

[Grick]

Lady Melo wrote:

I am unsure exactly how this works

Since it says "substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check" and not 'combat maneuver bonus' I think it's example 1. You take the exact roll that you checked against AC, and check that same value against CMD to bullrush.

If it substituted for CMB instead of the check, then anything that adds to CMB would apply.

[BltzKrg242]

You would use the same roll for both effects

[StreamOfTheSky]

It would be using your attack roll, modified by any specific bonuses you have to bull rushing, like +2 from Improved Bull Rush. Not modified by your CMB in any way.

So if you had a +12 attack bonus, rolled a 13, and hit (AC 25 or less), your bull rush would also be 25. Unless you had bonuses for bull rushing, in which case it would be 25 + those.

[Tarantula]

Stream, it does not say "plus any bonuses to bull rush". It simply says "substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check". No reason to pick up improved bull rush for shield slamming.

[StreamOfTheSky]

And bonuses to bull rush modify your roll. Just like Critical Focus modifies your confirm roll. You use your attack bonus on hte confirm roll, yet that specific modifer is also adding as well, because it applies when confirming a crit.

Improved Bull Rush not helping with shield slam is just silly.

[Tarantula]

Shield slam also already removes the AoO for attempting a bull rush. The main reason to get Imp. Bull Rush. It is an alternate way to make bull-rushes through attacks. You don't get the +2 for having IBR as well.

[Archaeik]

Considering the whole point of the feat is to also gain a BR check, BR modifiers should apply to the roll. There is no reason to disqualify additional bonuses you could have from IBR/GBR or any other source (like Lore Warden etc)...

It's a BR check just as any other, you just don't roll separately.

[Grick]

StreamOfTheSky wrote:

And bonuses to bull rush modify your roll. Just like Critical Focus modifies your confirm roll.

A confirmation roll is a whole other roll.

The shield slam bull rush is not. You substitute the attack roll that you already made for the combat maneuver check. Check, not bonus. If you had True Strike up, that same value would still apply to the check because you use that same existing roll, you don't roll it again or apply different modifiers.

[Knight Magenta]

You may want to get Imp. Bull Rush to qualify for Greater Bull Rush.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's not worth 3 feats just to make the movement provoke if that's all you're getting (Shield Slam requires TWF and power attack is an uber bad idea w/ TWF, so even that feat is basically useless).

I still disagree w/ the others. It's the same roll, but you have modifers that affect a roll when applied for certain attacks. In this case bull rush. So if you had Imp and Greater BR, your attack roll might be 25, but you would have 29 against CMD for bull rushing.

It would be nice to get this FAQ'd.

[thistledown]

Bringing this up again because I'd like it to work Streams way, but want confirmation that it does.