The thread title pretty much sums up what I had intended to do with a houserule for CE. Just switch the Int 13 requirement for Dex 13 and call it a day. It doesn't make sense to me that it should require an intelligence score that is a full standard deviation above normal to learn how to fight with some extra defense and, more importantly, trip, disarm and feint in combat without provoking AoOs. Trip and Disarm seem pretty finesse based to me anyway, so making those have a Dex requirement makes more sense to me anyway.
However, since no one in my group has every used CE on any character in the many years I've been playing 3.x based systems, I'm not sure how drastically this would affect the game. It would make it easier for rogues, TWFers and such to take CM feats and harder for wizards to take CE, but I don't see either of these things as being bad.
The alternate solution would be to offer a CE Lite that is Dex based in addition to normal CE. Let it offer a smaller (or more slowly progressing) bonus, but let it count as CE for the purpose of qualifying for feats, classes, etc.
Is there anything I've missed in making this happen?
Um... Skill Points? I am always incredibly annoyed at having 2 skills per level, and will never have less than a 10 in intelligence, even as a fighter. With a non-negative INT modifier, favored class bonus for skills and being human, I can earn a passable 4 skills per level. I'll start with a 14 in strength as a fighter before I start with a 7 in intelligence.
the cute part of being a human fighter, is that 7 and 8 int are actually identical.
Because they both drop you down to 1 skill point (cant go below one) then favoured class and racial bonuses are added after, you end up with 3 either way.
In terms of powergaming, 3 skills instead of 4 for the cost of 4 more points in point buy is generally kinda decent. throw those into wisdom instead, to get a +2 will save or something.
Okay. So the only reason to be a high INT fighter is... to take a feat that most people think suck. Yeah. That's really compelling. If anything, it's reason to dump the feat and make it dex based since it really isn't serving a concept but hindering them.
Okay. So the only reason to be a high INT fighter is... to take a feat that most people think suck. Yeah. That's really compelling. If anything, it's reason to dump the feat and make it dex based since it really isn't serving a concept but hindering them.
Since Power Attack is just a tax, and Combat Expertise is a pain, you could just make them part of the core. Make the effects of combat expertise "Fighting Defensively" and the effects of Power Attack "Fighting Aggressively".
Or just remove their ability prerequisites entirely.
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I think combat expertise should be multiplied like Power Attack is, only based on what's in the fighter's off hand instead of which weapon they're using.
Power Attack = damage x3 with two handed weapons, damage x2 with one handed weapons, damage x1 with light weapons
Maybe...
Combat Expertise = AC bonus x3 with free hand, AC bonus x2 with shield, AC bonus x1 with a two handed weapon
I think combat expertise should be multiplied like Power Attack is, only based on what's in the fighter's off hand instead of which weapon they're using.
Power Attack = damage x3 with two handed weapons, damage x2 with one handed weapons, damage x1 with light weapons
Maybe...
Combat Expertise = AC bonus x3 with free hand, AC bonus x2 with shield, AC bonus x1 with a two handed weapon
I think multiplying either by x3 would be way too much. Eventually getting +15 to AC from a feat? Scary. Even +10 to AC for a -5 to hit strikes me as a bit much.
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I think combat expertise should be multiplied like Power Attack is, only based on what's in the fighter's off hand instead of which weapon they're using.
Power Attack = damage x3 with two handed weapons, damage x2 with one handed weapons, damage x1 with light weapons
Maybe...
Combat Expertise = AC bonus x3 with free hand, AC bonus x2 with shield, AC bonus x1 with a two handed weapon
I think multiplying either by x3 would be way too much. Eventually getting +15 to AC from a feat? Scary. Even +10 to AC for a -5 to hit strikes me as a bit much.
Well, in order to get the combat expretise bonus from shield use I'd say you couldn't bash with it that round (you have to use it for defense, not offense), but at 20th level having +15 to AC on a free hand fighter is still probably not going to save you from getting smacked. +10 on a shielded fighter might, but you'd be giving up a lot of offensive power to get that. It might make Vital strike much more powerful in the end game as more than the last one or two iterative have a good chance of missing.
Combat expertise is just such a weak feat it's pretty much pointless. At least this way it would have some usefulness over its life.
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Combat expertise is just such a weak feat it's pretty much pointless.
Hey, I've gotten plenty of use out of it. One of my best moments using it was when the party was facing a nasty bipedal monster with claw/claw/rend/heat (don't know what it was called). My CMB for tripping was high enough that the attack penalty wasn't an issue (plus the Second Chance feat acted as extra insurance), and the +3 AC (combined with his -4 to hit from being prone all the time) made it extremely unlikely he'd hit with both claws (going from needing a 13 or better to hit to needing a 20 to hit is a HUGE change).
Basically, every round I would trip him and whack him, so he was kept busy while everyone else wailed on him. Probably prevented a TPK.
And that's not an isolated incident. I probably use it in about 1 in 4 encounters, and it always makes a difference when I do. I think people just don't quite get how and when to use it.
No, it's not Power Attack. But it's far from pointless.
I thought you get combat expertise to get whirlwind attack or improved trip/disarm.
All of which are pretty badass, I think.
Okay. So the only reason to be a high INT fighter is... to take a feat that most people think suck. Yeah. That's really compelling. If anything, it's reason to dump the feat and make it dex based since it really isn't serving a concept but hindering them.
Combat Expertise is a great feat TREE. Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, all intelligent tactics. I've had the AC bonus alone save one of my character's butts' more than once. Combat Expertise is meant to distinguish between the fencer and the brute, and that's plenty of reason to be smart.
If a you are making a fighter with an intelligence of 7, there are repercussions to that - one of them is that you are dumb, you don't get to do clever tricks because you aren't clever. You chose to be dumb, live with it. You want Combat Expertise and the clever stuff? Invest those points at character creation.
I am thinking on adding a special rule to Combat Expertise that it allows making attacks of opportunity while using total defense and when character with combat expertise uses total defense action he also adds full Combat Expertise bonus to AC.