I need help finding an obscure splatbook

[Loren Peterson]

I lied, I need help finding two. I cant remember what the books are called or who published them but i remember their content

Book 1: This book had a sort of free form character creation and leveling system for D&D that used points to buy better hit die, saves, bab, and weapon proficiencies.

Book 2: This one was the rules for playing character at the "apprentice level", before your wizard has mastered his first spell kind of thing.

[Weren Wu Jen]

I'm not sure about the first, but perhaps this is what you're looking for in regards to the second book: The Genius Guide to Apprentice Level Characters

[ShadowcatX]

2) There's a couple splat books that deal with apprentice level characters for Pathfinder.

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8gu2?The-Genius-Guide-to-ApprenticeLevel-Char acters

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8i70?Learning-Curve-ApprenticeLevel-Character s

http://paizo.com/products/btpy7yr9?Qerth-Apprentice-Level-Rules

1) That sounds vaguely familiar but I don't have the slightest idea where from.

[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

I think the 3.5 DMG II had rules for running apprentice characters as well, but maybe only for wizards. I'd have to check.

[Distant Scholar]

For #1, you might be thinking of Eclipse: the Codex Persona. BESM d20 had some features like that, too, if I remember correctly. There are likely others.

[Vinja89]

for one possibly your thinking of the generic classes from 3.5's unearthed arcana?

[HappyDaze]

Loren Peterson wrote:

I lied, I need help finding two. I cant remember what the books are called or who published them but i remember their content

Book 1: This book had a sort of free form character creation and leveling system for D&D that used points to buy better hit die, saves, bab, and weapon proficiencies.

Book 2: This one was the rules for playing character at the "apprentice level", before your wizard has mastered his first spell kind of thing.

Re #1, the AD&D 2e DMG had such a feature. It was almost never used by any of the groups that I knew, and was very easy to abuse. If there is a more recent version of this system, I am not aware of it.

[Callum Finlayson]

Roughly when were these books published & how sure are you that they were splat books?

I can think of ones that fit, but neither's a splat book and one's fairly old - (1) is possbily the 3e version of Unearthed Arcana, and (2) is possibly the 1e/2e Greyhawk Adventures

[Skylancer4]

For 1, maybe you are thinking of:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy80tu?Prestige-Class-Creation-Cookbook?

Short of that, I believe you are going all the way back to the 2E Skills and Powers book for actual class creation rules. Even the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana was variants on the base classes, pretty much the archtype rules we see in PFRPG. Nothing from scratch.

[Skylancer4]

Actually going through some of my Dreamscarred Press purchases I ran into:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy85pd?Complete-Control as well. You customize the character as you level up by spending XP for the appropriate bumps in the various categories like HD, Saves, feats, skills and etc.