A friend of mine is joining our group at the start of Kingmaker part 2.
He's relatively new, and has asked me to build him a character. He's pointed me towards the Crusader archetype for Cleric.
My instinct was A Cleric of Ragathiel for the Bastard Sword Proficiency, which he likes the sound of.
The character is level 4, 20 pt buy. Here's what I've come up with.
Str: 19 (+1 4th)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 14
Cha: 10
+1 Bastard Sword
Human Feat: Toughness
Level 1 Feat: Heavy Armour Prof
Crusader Feat: Weapon Focus (BS)
Level 3 Feat: Power Attack
Am I right in thinking he should use a buckler so he can still cast spells? I'd also give him full plate, putting his AC on 21.
This seems like a pretty solid build for a new player. Can anyone suggest some good spells he should take?
He'll be hitting on a +8 (Inc buckler) for 1d10+7 damage. 1d10+12 on power attack and smite at +7.
I've given him the Destruction domain for the destructive smite ability at +2 which I think is a nice bonus for him.
Anyone think of anything I've missed?
A friend of mine is joining our group at the start of Kingmaker part 2.
He's relatively new, and has asked me to build him a character. He's pointed me towards the Crusader archetype for Cleric.
My instinct was A Cleric of Ragathiel for the Bastard Sword Proficiency, which he likes the sound of.
The character is level 4, 20 pt buy. Here's what I've come up with.
Str: 19 (+1 4th)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 14
Cha: 10+1 Bastard Sword
Human Feat: Toughness
Level 1 Feat: Heavy Armour Prof
Crusader Feat: Weapon Focus (BS)
Level 3 Feat: Power AttackAm I right in thinking he should use a buckler so he can still cast spells? I'd also give him full plate, putting his AC on 21.
This seems like a pretty solid build for a new player. Can anyone suggest some good spells he should take?
He'll be hitting on a +8 (Inc buckler) for 1d10+7 damage. 1d10+12 on power attack and smite at +7.
I've given him the Destruction domain for the destructive smite ability at +2 which I think is a nice bonus for him.
Anyone think of anything I've missed?
I cannot comment on Kingmaker.
Feats alright, also the style. Personally I would rearrange the stats a bit. 8 in INT and 14 in WIS are too low IMO, so I would rather go something like 15, 10, 14, 10, 15, 11 or 14, 10, 14, 10, 14, 14, putting the +2 in either STR or WIS to preserve options. The way you designed him he can only hit well, he basically cannot use spells offensively, and even if he puts every single level-based stat increase into WIS he will never get 9th level spells.
Instead of toughness I would rather take the favored class bonus for HP and leave the INT at 10 - it benefits your skill checks more. That would free up a feat slot for something like great fortitude, combat casting or channel smite.
Buckler is good idea, especially since he can leave it off if he does not need it.
Domain is fine, I would also recommend looking at travel or liberation :-)
Oh, I forgot spells:
0 - any are fine, e.g. light, detect magic, disrupt undead, stabilize
1 - bless*, shield of faith*, command, divine favor, endure elements, obscuring mist, protection from evil*, summon monster I
2 - aid, calm emotions, delay poison, grace, hold person, make whole, resist energy*, shatter, shield other, silence*, lesser restoration, spear of purity, spiritual weapon, status, summon monster II, weapon of awe, web shelter
*recommended for your build and level, leaves one slot open.
General advice: Leave one feat slot open for every level to preserve flexibility during the day by praying for 15 mins or so :-)
Oh and you should maybe let him know about the spontaneous conversion abilities of a cleric.
Oh, btw. I do not know about the domains of Ragathiel. I just recommended the domains above because they are quite good and add versatility :-)
Thanks Sangalor,
From my experience he'd really need the 18 str. We play a CR+2 game and I'm worried he wouldn't hit anything if it dropped any lower.
I take your point on Wisdom, I had mainly anticipated him casting spells to buff rather than use the offensively, but I think you're right, and a buff to Wisdom would help.
I've dropped Dex to 10, and put Wis to 15. This will cover him until 11th level. By then he'll have +WIS items and a few boosts so he'll be casting spells fine.
I don't think Ragathiel gets Travel or I'd have picked it. Combat Casting is probably a better idea than toughness.
Thanks
Everything seems ok. However, if he intends to use bastard sword in two hands all the time and intend to be involved in melee combat he might consider dropping the buckler completely - he will lose its bonus most of the time anyway while taking penalty to attack rolls all the time.
Destruction domain is fine as long as no one else provides morale bonus to damage (which is unlikely until 7th level and bard's good hope assuming the party includes any bard at all. Alternatively, you might also consider Nobility domain - it grants +2 morale bonus to attack rolls, weapon damage rolls and skill checks for 2 rounds. It's drawback is that it is used as a standard action but it can be used on ally as well as on oneself. The destruction domain smite scales damage bonus with level, while the nobility domain inspiring word scales it's duration with level - first is giving more direct punishing power while the later is better for extended fights. There is also long-term matter of 8th level power: destructive field which is interesting but potentially double-edged effect and Leadership as a bonus feat, which is very useful in Kingmaker, unless you decided to forbid that feat, with extra bonus to leadership score (important as the character has Charisma modifier of 0).
Spells:
Destruction's true strike can be great but it is limited to single attack once per day.
Nobility's divine favor, like the whole domain packs less direct punch than destruction but provides bonus for the duration of an average fight (actual experience may vary, 10 rounds sometimes is only a fraction of extended fight).
That said, it's worth to remember that with destruction domain he can get both spells - true strike in domain slot and divine favor in regular slot, while he can't get them both if nobility domain is picked.
Other spells (I assume he wants to be martial, melee-oriented character)
1st level: divine favor as domain spell or regular one, shield of faith to boost AC
2nd level: bull's strength, weapon of awe or occasionally effortless armor (to negate that pesky movement penalties of full plate).
For now he better rely on Channel Positive Energy for healing after combat or in the most dire circumstances, he does not have enough spells to convert them into cure wounds.
Why not play a paladin?
Everything seems ok. However, if he intends to use bastard sword in two hands all the time and intend to be involved in melee combat he might consider dropping the buckler completely - he will lose its bonus most of the time anyway while taking penalty to attack rolls all the time.
Drejk is right there. I assumed you use the BS one-handed. You use a lot of the buckler benefits otherwise, though energy resistances, skill bonuses, fortification etc. still work - if that is enough for you.
Thanks Drejk, good shout on Nobility. I'll look into that for him.
I actually play a bard, I wasn't aware that the destruction smite wouldn't stack with my inspire courage :S
Drejk is right there. I assumed you use the BS one-handed. You use a lot of the buckler benefits otherwise, though energy resistances, skill bonuses, fortification etc. still work - if that is enough for you.Everything seems ok. However, if he intends to use bastard sword in two hands all the time and intend to be involved in melee combat he might consider dropping the buckler completely - he will lose its bonus most of the time anyway while taking penalty to attack rolls all the time.
I just want to give him the option, using it two handed only adds +2 damage at this point, so he's probably better off with the +1 AC.
By the way, have you considered fighter or ranger for him? They are better at fighting which you seem to be aiming for. And if you want some magic, the ranger should fit that bill.
I just noticed that Ragathiel grants access to Rage subdomain of Destruction that could be interesting choice for that character - he would get bull's strength on 2nd level as a domain spell instead of much less useful (for him) shatter, which will save him one 2nd level spell - a huge boon for spell starved crusader cleric. At 8th level he could enter barbarian's rage for a total of one round per class level every day. At higher levels he would even get some rage powers.
I am not sure about taking Combat Casting - I think that with this build he should rather avoid casting spells in close combat. He should cast one or two spells augmenting him and/or allies prior to entering the melee and then rely on melee attacks. If he finds he really needs to cast a spell he should rather disengage with 5-ft step. If he can't leave reach of all enemies in this way he has more serious problems anyway.
Why not play a paladin?
I guess it's less demanding for a beginner player. He will be lawful good probably, but avoids problems with the code.
I just want to give him the option, using it two handed only adds +2 damage at this point, so he's probably better off with the +1 AC.Drejk is right there. I assumed you use the BS one-handed. You use a lot of the buckler benefits otherwise, though energy resistances, skill bonuses, fortification etc. still work - if that is enough for you.Everything seems ok. However, if he intends to use bastard sword in two hands all the time and intend to be involved in melee combat he might consider dropping the buckler completely - he will lose its bonus most of the time anyway while taking penalty to attack rolls all the time.
Two-handed actually adds +4 (+2 str, +2 PA) with power attack at this level. You might want to consider furious focus at level 5 there - that first attack will hit much easier then :-)
By the way, have you considered fighter or ranger for him? They are better at fighting which you seem to be aiming for. And if you want some magic, the ranger should fit that bill.
Well this guy had actually led me to Crusader as he'd looked it up on the SRD.
The rest of the party is:
Arcane Duellist, Dwarvern Cleric of Torag, THF and a Ray specialist Wizard.
Our GM just keeps throwing horribly hard stuff at us, the Fighter and Cleric are currently dead and we're stuck in a dungeon we can't exit until we get the key off the BBEG!
Thanks Drejk, good shout on Nobility. I'll look into that for him.
I actually play a bard, I wasn't aware that the destruction smite wouldn't stack with my inspire courage :S
It will without any issues, in Pathfinder inspire courage grants competence bonus to attack and damage roll. Only the saving throw bonus you grant has morale type. I was referring to 3rd level bard spell good hope which grants +2 morale bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks (I think) and is a great buffing spell that wonderfully stacks with inspire courage, prayer and haste. You don't have to worry about it for three more levels, however.
By the way, have you considered fighter or ranger for him? They are better at fighting which you seem to be aiming for. And if you want some magic, the ranger should fit that bill.Well this guy had actually led me to Crusader as he'd looked it up on the SRD.
The rest of the party is:
Arcane Duellist, Dwarvern Cleric of Torag, THF and a Ray specialist Wizard.
Our GM just keeps throwing horribly hard stuff at us, the Fighter and Cleric are currently dead and we're stuck in a dungeon we can't exit until we get the key off the BBEG!
Hm, don't get me wrong, but CR+2 is not that horribly hard in itself. What does your DM do that is so hard? Does he send you a lot of humanoid and intelligent opponents? Fighters with teamwork feats? High level spell casters? It could make a difference on what build would fit in there :-)
You have a lot of things covered there. I would think an archer would fit well in there, e.g. a switch hitting ranger (without animal companion but with the companion bond). A court bard would be great to debuff opponents, but it's more difficult to play than your suggested build. Inquisitor would be pretty cool, but is even more complicated...
Seems to me you are lacking one of two things:
1) The area effect arcanist, assuming your ray specialized wizard focuses on dedicated opponents.
2) Another team booster, e.g. a cavalier, possibly samurai. Have you considered those? They are great at fighting, even without a mount, and the teamwork feats / morale bonuses they can grant should boost your entire group's combat prowess even further :-)
You already have a cleric and I think crusader is mechanically a bad choice. Only one domain and reduced spells - it's not a good trade off.
I recommend inquistor or an archer ranger. Maybe an oracle of battle would work. The characters you have in your party now seem to be a good mix already (looks like a powerful combination). An archer ranger would fit in well.
I want to give him something not too taxing to begin with. There are a lot of rules to learn, Cavalier I think would be too taxing for a newbie as great a class as it is.
Well as an example of our GM, we're all level 5. There were four of us, we entered a dungeon we couldn't leave where we faced 6 rounds of oozes, slimes, black puddings and mimics before coming up against a Mummy, a wraith and two shadows.
Out of food and water now, we must finish the dungeon to escape with two players down!
He GM's smart, and every combat feels like it could be our last.
One time, we rested by a tree in the forest, only for it to come alive, grapple the wizard and rip him in half in one round. No more Wizard!
I want to give him something not too taxing to begin with. There are a lot of rules to learn, Cavalier I think would be too taxing for a newbie as great a class as it is.
Well as an example of our GM, we're all level 5. There were four of us, we entered a dungeon we couldn't leave where we faced 6 rounds of oozes, slimes, black puddings and mimics before coming up against a Mummy, a wraith and two shadows.
Out of food and water now, we must finish the dungeon to escape with two players down!
He GM's smart, and every combat feels like it could be our last.
One time, we rested by a tree in the forest, only for it to come alive, grapple the wizard and rip him in half in one round. No more Wizard!
Hm, sounds like he wants to keep you on your toes :-)
How many mimics, what oozes...? I wonder if that's really CR+2 then.Mummy - CR 5
Wraith - CR 5
2x Shadow - CR 3 -> CR 5
-> 3 x CR 5 -> CR 8 -> APL+3!
So assuming I understood correctly that all of those came at the same time, you had an APL+3 encounter - really dangerous, and given environment and other conditions that even goes further.
Anyway, have you considered a zen archer monk? Monks are really survivable, and once you start shooting arrows - I think you are lacking one of those ranged attackers - it's simply full BAB to calculate with.
Cleric, especially the crusader type, is not necessarily the best way to go. I would reiterate the ranger, or monk :-)
Some thoughts: primary problem with Cleric in case of beginners is that Clerics get to prepare their spells every day having access to all spells of given levels. Inquisitor could be good replacement but he has to manage his judgements, know when to switch between judgements. If the GM will be cooperating and lenient* when it comes to following the code, the Paladin could be easier choice.
*by lenient I assume that GM and the party would be willing to point out potential breaks before they actually occur instead of blasting away his paladinhood on the first breach.
Forget Crusader and go with a 1 level fighter dip. Clerics have no capstone so he doesn't lose bugger all. Will get the armor for free and his second domain back.
Say cleric 1( Rage, Good domains, Bastard sword for free)
Fighter 1 (Heavy armor, Wpn Fcs: Bastard sword)
Cleric from then on.