Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Generally spells and scrolls are bought at the lowest caster level possible in PFSOP. The gold cost of a Remove Curse or Remove Disease spell is 150 gold, which would mean an caster level of 5, since it's a 3rd level spell. 1 PP gets you the equivalent of a single 150gp purchase, which is why the prestige can be used in that way. To pay for a 12th level caster's services on those spells, the cost would be 360 gold (Caster level(12) x Spell level (3) x 10 gold) each spell. So technically they wouldn't be able to purchase those higher level services with 1PP, and you'd have to make the Caster Level check. I'm not sure if PFSOP allows you to seek out the services of someone higher than minimum caster level or not if paying in gold, but I don't think so out of sake of simplicity.
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Technically, the spell casting services would be at the minimum caster level required to cast the spell. The same as purchasing a potion or scroll. This may vary by GM, but that's how it probably should be handled.
Yes, the caster level check must be made. That's part of the danger of getting a curse. You gotta make a caster level check. If you are at the mercy of an NPC, then you will get less than optimal services, IMO. If the check fails, you are free to spend more gold or PP to get another spell cast.
As for Tumble:
In addition, you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10. You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor. If an ability allows you to move at full speed under such conditions, you can use Acrobatics to move past foes. You can use Acrobatics in this way while prone, but doing so requires a full-round action to move 5 feet, and the DC is increased by 5. If you attempt to move though an enemy's space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity.
and from the chart
* This DC is used to avoid an attack of opportunity due to movement. This DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent avoided in 1 round
So you will likely have GM variation on whether you need to make one roll for each discreet instance, or one roll for each person you are trying to avoid.
Making multiple rolls can slow the game down, but it can also work in your favor should your first roll really suck.
Additionally, if your Acrobatics bonus would beat all the CMDs, including the one at +4 or +6, you can say something like, "My acrobatics check would be 27 if I roll a 1, will that beat all of them at +6 to their CMD?" If the answer is yes, then you don't need to roll at all.
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Yes, you need to make the checks. You should clear the afflictions before you leave the table where you received the affliction. If you purchase spell casting services via PP, then the caster level for the checks is assumed to be the minimum caster level able to cast the spell (i.e. remove disease is a 3rd level cleric spell, so it's done by a 5th level cleric). If you pay gold to purchase spell casting services, it's been said you can purchase said services at higher than minimum caster level for the service. It's no different than if you had a cleric in your party that offered to cast the spells on character. The base PF rules changed remove disease/poison/etc. so that they are no longer automatically gimme's like they used to be in 3.5. I am sorry, you have no "leg to stand on" in this argument.
That's more of a GM call thing. Personally, I take one acrobatics roll and apply it to the appropriate CMD's and determine success/failure against the single roll. If you rolled well, it's in your favor. If you roll poorly... However, I have played a several tables where the GM did want rolls for each foe, which is their prerogative at their table. Somethings are going to be different in how they're implemented from table to table.
Hope this helps.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The Acrobatics issue has already been FAQ'd, and GM's are expected to abide by it, no matter how silly one might find the multiple checks:
Tumbling FAQ
"Acrobatics allows you to make checks to move through the threatened area of foes without provoking attacks of opportunity. You must make a check the moment you attempt to leave a square threatened by an enemy, but only once per foe. The DC (which is based of the Combat Maneuver Defense of each foe), increases by +2 for each foe after the first in one round. The DC also increases by +5 if you attempt to move through a foe. In the case of moving out of the threatened square of two foes at the same time, the moving character decides which check to make first.
For example, a rogue is flanked by a meek goblin and a terrifying antipaladin. The rogue move away from both of them, provoking an attack of opportunity from both, but uses Acrobatics to attempt to negate them. She must move at half speed while threatened by these foes and can choose which to check against first. If she fails a check, she provokes an attack of opportunity from that foe. If she makes it, she does not provoke from moving through that foe's threatened space this turn."
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I disagree about the caster checks on spellcasting. I know in my group, we've always just assumed that if you buy a cure between adventures, it definitely succeeds. If you were casting during the adventure, then yes, I could see needing to make checks and everything, since time is a factor.
But if it's between adventures, and you're hiring a service, shouldn't that spellcasting service come with a money back guarantee? Why would I pay a guy who fails to deliver a successful spell? As far as I'm concerned, the cost (in gp or PA) should cover as many castings as it takes to get one success, so the whole process of rolling can be skipped.
I'd like to see an official ruling on this.
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Since the spell's duration is instantaneous, it does not prevent reinfection after a new exposure to the same disease at a later date.
Unfortunately it's not auto success on curing disease. I believed myself that also until I saw the text on Remove Disease spell.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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** spoiler omitted **
Unfortunately it's not auto success on curing disease. I believed myself that also until I saw the text on Remove Disease spell.
That's not what they're arguing. They know it's not an auto-success under normal circumstances. Fromper is arguing if you can withhold payment from the caster until they get it right, essentially making it an auto-success.
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No, because spellcasting has a cost. You pay X (where X = Spell Level + Caster Level x 10) to cast a spell once. The spell works the way it does. If it fails, you can pay for a second casting.
Doing it differently is breaking RAW, and is giving players a benefit that others in the campaign are not getting.
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I guess the question is are you paying for a spell or are you paying for a service?
If you're paying for a spell, then I guess you get only one casting of that spell, regardless of the results. But that seems kinda silly. Again, why would I pay for someone to do an incomplete job?
If you're paying for a service, such as removing a curse with magic, then you shouldn't care how many castings it takes. That's the problem of the spellcaster. They just have to keep casting until they succeed at providing the service requested. And if they're incapable of doing so, then you don't pay them and take your money to someone who can get it done.
If you buy spellcasting services with PP, the spell is always cast at minimum caster level for that spell. If you buy the services with gold, you can pay for as high a level casting as you can afford as per the Core Rules, as Andrew quoted above.
I do have to add that this line from ver. 3.03 of the Guide is not to be found anywhere in ver. 4.0 or 4.1, so I am not sure if this was accidentally left out in the rewrite or if it was intentional. From page 25:
Any spellcasting purchased using CPA is cast at minimum caster level.
I am going to post about this in the Changes to 4.2 thread, so maybe we will get a clarification either here or there from Mike or Mark.
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I guess the question is are you paying for a spell or are you paying for a service?
If you're paying for a spell, then I guess you get only one casting of that spell, regardless of the results. But that seems kinda silly. Again, why would I pay for someone to do an incomplete job?
If you're paying for a service, such as removing a curse with magic, then you shouldn't care how many castings it takes. That's the problem of the spellcaster. They just have to keep casting until they succeed at providing the service requested. And if they're incapable of doing so, then you don't pay them and take your money to someone who can get it done.
It's "Spellcasting Services". You're paying them to cast a spell for you. It's even cheaper than buying a scroll of the spell. Just like said scroll, you get the benefits once (if you have someone who can even cast the scroll). Not trying to be snarky, but this has come up before, though it's been a long time. I think the last time anyone official chimed in was back in Josh's time as head, and it was verified that it really does work just the way the CRB says casting the spell does.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I guess the question is are you paying for a spell or are you paying for a service?If memory serves (don't have access to the Guide from here), you're paying for a casting of the spell.
Yeah, each time you spend the gold or PP, you are buying a casting of the spell, nothing more. So if it takes 10 castings because the GM's or your dice suck, then you will have to pay for it 10 times.
But people also need to remember that if the affliction, disease, etc is something that will heal eventually on it's own, that you do not have to pay anything in between scenarios to get rid of it, due to the non-tracking of time passage. So if you can survive the rest of the scenario with whatever it is, you will be good at the beginning of the next.
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I guess the question is are you paying for a spell or are you paying for a service?If memory serves (don't have access to the Guide from here), you're paying for a casting of the spell.Yeah, each time you spend the gold or PP, you are buying a casting of the spell, nothing more. So if it takes 10 castings because the GM's or your dice suck, then you will have to pay for it 10 times.
But people also need to remember that if the affliction, disease, etc is something that will heal eventually on it's own, that you do not have to pay anything in between scenarios to get rid of it, due to the non-tracking of time passage. So if you can survive the rest of the scenario with whatever it is, you will be good at the beginning of the next.
Unless, it's a CON damaging disease in general you can write it off, yes. Any other stat damage won't kill you.
Curses, blindness/deafness, etc. are permanent, so do need to be taken care of by the spell casting really.
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Actually, afflictions carry over from scenario to scenario.
And most, if not all, diseases, IIRC, don’t have a limit as to how many days it runs. It basically keeps going, and going, and going, until you get it cured. The frequency is 1/day. Not 1/day for 6 days. It is 1/day. The cure is usually 2 consecutive saves.
So diseases will not go away on their own between scenarios.
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If they don't do CON damage, a disease is generally hand-waved away at the end of a scenario. Any other stat going to zero from damage only makes you unable to act, it doesn't kill you. Since there's an indeterminate number of days between each scenario, it's just easier to say I stay in sick bed rolling until I save 2 or 3 times (whatever is necessary) in a row, no matter how long it takes. You can either roll it out, and spend real time doing so, or just say it happens eventually...as statistically it will sometime. Either way you get the same results in the end.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If they don't do CON damage, a disease is generally hand-waved away at the end of a scenario. Any other stat going to zero from damage only makes you unable to act, it doesn't kill you. Since there's an indeterminate number of days between each scenario, it's just easier to say I stay in sick bed rolling until I save 2 or 3 times (whatever is necessary) in a row, no matter how long it takes. You can either roll it out, and spend real time doing so, or just say it happens eventually...as statistically it will sometime. Either way you get the same results in the end.
But having any non-CON ability score drop to 0 also leaves you unable to feed yourself or otherwise keep yourself alive. Who's taking care of you constantly? Can you even digest things if you're comatose? What if it takes you so long to recover that you starve to death?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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What if it takes you so long to recover that you starve to death?Do we really need this level of nuance in a one-shot-based organized play environment?
What I'm really meaning to ask is whether Sniggevert's assertion that non-CON diseases should be assumed to clear up on their own is appropriate or not.
I'm honestly not sure, so I was providing a counterargument for further discussion.
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What if it takes you so long to recover that you starve to death?Do we really need this level of nuance in a one-shot-based organized play environment?What I'm really meaning to ask is whether Sniggevert's assertion that non-CON diseases should be assumed to clear up on their own is appropriate or not.
I'm honestly not sure, so I was providing a counterargument for further discussion.
OK, if you want to go into that much detail, who's paying your lodging when you're healthy. How are you eating without spending any of your tracked gold? How much is stabling for a mount? How much must paladins and clerics tithe?
There are TONS of things that are hand waved away because as Bob noted, do we really need this kind of blow by blow detail of things that really are immaterial?
If they don't do CON damage, a disease is generally hand-waved away at the end of a scenario. Any other stat going to zero from damage only makes you unable to act, it doesn't kill you. Since there's an indeterminate number of days between each scenario, it's just easier to say I stay in sick bed rolling until I save 2 or 3 times (whatever is necessary) in a row, no matter how long it takes. You can either roll it out, and spend real time doing so, or just say it happens eventually...as statistically it will sometime. Either way you get the same results in the end.But having any non-CON ability score drop to 0 also leaves you unable to feed yourself or otherwise keep yourself alive. Who's taking care of you constantly? Can you even digest things if you're comatose? What if it takes you so long to recover that you starve to death?
Jiggy,
From the prd:
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.
If nothing is able to get to you and kill you during that one day that is needed to recover that first point, then your character will be fine. And since it is assumed that you character is somewhere safe in between scenarios, then something like this is handwaved away. Now if you are down to zero in a stat and you still have the disease or whatever at the end of the scenario, then you have a problem and your character may never wake up if not cured first.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Jiggy,
From the prd:
If nothing is able to get to you and kill you during that one day that is needed to recover that first point, then your character will be fine.Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.
What's any of that got to do with what I said? I said you'd be unconscious, and lookie there, you quoted the rule saying you'd be unconscious. What were you getting at?
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If nothing is able to get to you and kill you during that one day that is needed to recover that first point, then your character will be fine. And since it is assumed that you character is somewhere safe in between scenarios, then something like this is handwaved away. Now if you are down to zero in a stat and you still have the disease or whatever at the end of the scenario, then you have a problem and your character may never wake up if not cured first.
Why? Why would this be any different than going to 0 at any indeterminate point of time between scenarios? It's not going to kill you. You fall into a coma, and stay in one until you recover and can heal up naturally.
Btw, while you're under the effects of an affliction you do not naturally heal ability damage caused by the affliction. You have the remove the affliction first to heal naturally.
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If they don't do CON damage, a disease is generally hand-waved away at the end of a scenario. Any other stat going to zero from damage only makes you unable to act, it doesn't kill you. Since there's an indeterminate number of days between each scenario, it's just easier to say I stay in sick bed rolling until I save 2 or 3 times (whatever is necessary) in a row, no matter how long it takes. You can either roll it out, and spend real time doing so, or just say it happens eventually...as statistically it will sometime. Either way you get the same results in the end.
Yes, but this isn’t the correct way to do things.
Because afflictions carry over between scenarios, if you don’t get it taken care of, you start the next scenario minus whatever ability damage you’ve taken, and have the chance to incur more ability damage in the next scenario.
To handwave such a thing is removing a potentially earned penalty for the next scenario.
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If they don't do CON damage, a disease is generally hand-waved away at the end of a scenario. Any other stat going to zero from damage only makes you unable to act, it doesn't kill you. Since there's an indeterminate number of days between each scenario, it's just easier to say I stay in sick bed rolling until I save 2 or 3 times (whatever is necessary) in a row, no matter how long it takes. You can either roll it out, and spend real time doing so, or just say it happens eventually...as statistically it will sometime. Either way you get the same results in the end.Yes, but this isn’t the correct way to do things.
Because afflictions carry over between scenarios, if you don’t get it taken care of, you start the next scenario minus whatever ability damage you’ve taken, and have the chance to incur more ability damage in the next scenario.
To handwave such a thing is removing a potentially earned penalty for the next scenario.
But you'd be fine if it was rolled out time, after time, after time, after time, after time, after time, etc, etc, etc, before leaving the table that the non-lethal ailment was gained? Leaving absolutely no potentially earned penalty for the next scenario...
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If for the moment we assume that since a non-Con disease will never kill you, and we assume that eventually you will make the consecutive saves, and there is an indeterminate amount of time between scenarios, it is easy to say you'll just recover before the next scenario.
IMO, that is wrong thinking. You can't take 10 or 20 on saves, so there is no reason to think you will recover naturally between scenarios if the affliction is still active. Unless you have it removed at the end of the session, when the chronicles are issued, you start the next session still under the effects. Presumably, that means you are still afflicted and suffering some level of re-occurring ability damage.
However, it could be argued that since the time between scenarios is indeterminate, you did not get any worse since the last table. So I suppose you can "roll the dice" and hope the next group has a cleric capable of removing the affliction and restoring your lost ability damage at no cost. But that is a fairly big risk and could be affected by GM discretion.
Con-draining diseases probably need to be treated differently. If you are under the effects at the conclusion of the session, then the session probably should not end. It would be the same as if you had bleed damage during the final encounter. Just because the combat ended does not mean your bleed stopped. Keep making your saves with/out party assistance and taking Con damage as applicable. If you reach zero before being cured, the character dies. Sorry, but without this expectation, all creatures with the disease quality should be downgraded at least 1/2 to 1 CR since they essentially give up part of their stat block.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Official post from then-head of PFS Organized Play, Josh Frost
I know this won't get dropped, but figured I'd leave it here for the sake of officialness.
EDIT: And also, his post on using minimum caster level for spellcasting services from the same thread here.
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But you'd be fine if it was rolled out time, after time, after time, after time, after time, after time, etc, etc, etc, before leaving the table that the non-lethal ailment was gained? Leaving absolutely no potentially earned penalty for the next scenario...If they don't do CON damage, a disease is generally hand-waved away at the end of a scenario. Any other stat going to zero from damage only makes you unable to act, it doesn't kill you. Since there's an indeterminate number of days between each scenario, it's just easier to say I stay in sick bed rolling until I save 2 or 3 times (whatever is necessary) in a row, no matter how long it takes. You can either roll it out, and spend real time doing so, or just say it happens eventually...as statistically it will sometime. Either way you get the same results in the end.Yes, but this isn’t the correct way to do things.
Because afflictions carry over between scenarios, if you don’t get it taken care of, you start the next scenario minus whatever ability damage you’ve taken, and have the chance to incur more ability damage in the next scenario.
To handwave such a thing is removing a potentially earned penalty for the next scenario.
At some point the scenario ends. Technically, a GM has a right to call it an end, no matter how many rolls you want to make, at the 5 hour mark. Especially if the venue needs the table or is closing.
And since time between scenarios is ambiguous, the disease (and healing of any kind) will not have progressed between scenarios. You also have the option to try and make 1 save and/or buy spellcasting services at the beginning of a scenario (of course scenario dependent).
Additionally, if you lesser restore all your ability damage up before the end of a scenario, the only thing you have to contend with at the start of the next one is a potential failed save and any resultant ability damage that incurs (or any continuing damage should the scenario last more than 1 day.)
But there is no point in indicating in the guide that conditions and afflictions carry over from scenario to scenario if they don’t actually carry over as you suggest.
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But you'd be fine if it was rolled out time, after time, after time, after time, after time, after time, etc, etc, etc, before leaving the table that the non-lethal ailment was gained? Leaving absolutely no potentially earned penalty for the next scenario...If they don't do CON damage, a disease is generally hand-waved away at the end of a scenario. Any other stat going to zero from damage only makes you unable to act, it doesn't kill you. Since there's an indeterminate number of days between each scenario, it's just easier to say I stay in sick bed rolling until I save 2 or 3 times (whatever is necessary) in a row, no matter how long it takes. You can either roll it out, and spend real time doing so, or just say it happens eventually...as statistically it will sometime. Either way you get the same results in the end.Yes, but this isn’t the correct way to do things.
Because afflictions carry over between scenarios, if you don’t get it taken care of, you start the next scenario minus whatever ability damage you’ve taken, and have the chance to incur more ability damage in the next scenario.
To handwave such a thing is removing a potentially earned penalty for the next scenario.
It's pointless to even think like that. Conditions and afflictions are useless that way then. Who is to judge then how much time has passed until next scenario?
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At some point the scenario ends. Technically, a GM has a right to call it an end, no matter how many rolls you want to make, at the 5 hour mark. Especially if the venue needs the table or is closing.And since time between scenarios is ambiguous, the disease (and healing of any kind) will not have progressed between scenarios. You also have the option to try and make 1 save and/or buy spellcasting services at the beginning of a scenario (of course scenario dependent).
Additionally, if you lesser restore all your ability damage up before the end of a scenario, the only thing you have to contend with at the start of the next one is a potential failed save and any resultant ability damage that incurs (or any...
According to Josh Frost, the GM is supposed to have the player roll it out at the end of a scenario. Which could take a very long time. However, they will eventually beat the save, and it unless it is a con damaging disease, it doesn't matter how much damage they take. Coma? Cool, take your siesta in the grand lodge. Does it take 30 days for you to finally make your two saves? Thats fine.
So. No penalty for failure, damage goes away by the next session (per J. Frost), and they *will* eventually make their save.
Long story short, it sounds like something that was *meant* to be handwaved.
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At some point the scenario ends. Technically, a GM has a right to call it an end, no matter how many rolls you want to make, at the 5 hour mark. Especially if the venue needs the table or is closing.And since time between scenarios is ambiguous, the disease (and healing of any kind) will not have progressed between scenarios. You also have the option to try and make 1 save and/or buy spellcasting services at the beginning of a scenario (of course scenario dependent).
Additionally, if you lesser restore all your ability damage up before the end of a scenario, the only thing you have to contend with at the start of the next one is a potential failed save and any resultant ability damage that incurs (or any...
According to Josh Frost, the GM is supposed to have the player roll it out at the end of a scenario. Which could take a very long time. However, they will eventually beat the save, and it unless it is a con damaging disease, it doesn't matter how much damage they take. Coma? Cool, take your siesta in the grand lodge. Does it take 30 days for you to finally make your two saves? Thats fine.
So. No penalty for failure, damage goes away by the next session (per J. Frost), and they *will* eventually make their save.
Long story short, it sounds like something that was *meant* to be handwaved.
Exactly Sniggevert's point, and I tend to agree with him on this one.
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But then its pointless to have anything in the guide that requires conditions be noted on the chronicle sheets.
Conditions are supposed to carry from scenario to scenario.
That depends on the condition. We're only talking about diseases that get regular saves to overcome and don't reduce Con. Those can be handwaved, on the assumption that given enough time between adventures, everyone will eventually make the necessary saves.
All other conditions still need to be noted. Con damaging diseases, curses, blindness, deafness, etc are still conditions to be listed on the sheet, because they're permanent until cured or dead.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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But then its pointless to have anything in the guide that requires conditions be noted on the chronicle sheets.
Conditions are supposed to carry from scenario to scenario.
Not entirely. There are conditions which do not have recurring saves which would apply from scenario to scenario, and need to be cured. Blindness or Deafness for example.
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But then its pointless to have anything in the guide that requires conditions be noted on the chronicle sheets.
Conditions are supposed to carry from scenario to scenario.
I'm trying to get out this, since it seems to be going nowhere. However, please read the entire discussion if you're going to make statements like this.
Unless, it's a CON damaging disease in general you can write it off, yes. Any other stat damage won't kill you.
Curses, blindness/deafness, etc. are permanent, so do need to be taken care of by the spell casting really.
There are numerous conditions that would need to be handled straight up by die rolling out or spell casting services. Some conditions are permanent or fatal, and therefore NEED to be chronicled.
I personally prefer to spend my time dealing with these, as needed, instead of repetitively having someone roll till they get 2 good rolls in a row to recover from something that's completely harmless given enough time to recover.
It's my take, and how I run it, and why IMO it makes sense in a setting with time is completely fungible between any two playings of a single character. YMMV.
I'm out of the discussion.
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But then its pointless to have anything in the guide that requires conditions be noted on the chronicle sheets.
Conditions are supposed to carry from scenario to scenario.
That depends on the condition. We're only talking about diseases that get regular saves to overcome and don't reduce Con. Those can be handwaved, on the assumption that given enough time between adventures, everyone will eventually make the necessary saves.
All other conditions still need to be noted. Con damaging diseases, curses, blindness, deafness, etc are still conditions to be listed on the sheet, because they're permanent until cured or dead.
But as Jiggy noted, if you fall unconscious and can't make the saves, eventually you will starve to death. And don't say that because you heal 1 ability damage per day of rest that you wouldn't stay unconscious.
Day 1, you hit 0
Day 2, you heal 1, wake up, make a new save, fail, take ability damage, hit 0, go unconscious, before you can do anything else.
Day 3, rinse and repeat.
Once you go unconscious, you need someone to constantly care for you, or you will die.
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But then its pointless to have anything in the guide that requires conditions be noted on the chronicle sheets.
Conditions are supposed to carry from scenario to scenario.
I'm trying to get out this, since it seems to be going nowhere. However, please read the entire discussion if you're going to make statements like this.
I have read every post in this thread. I still strongly disagree with your position.
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But then its pointless to have anything in the guide that requires conditions be noted on the chronicle sheets.
Conditions are supposed to carry from scenario to scenario.
That depends on the condition. We're only talking about diseases that get regular saves to overcome and don't reduce Con. Those can be handwaved, on the assumption that given enough time between adventures, everyone will eventually make the necessary saves.
All other conditions still need to be noted. Con damaging diseases, curses, blindness, deafness, etc are still conditions to be listed on the sheet, because they're permanent until cured or dead.
But as Jiggy noted, if you fall unconscious and can't make the saves, eventually you will starve to death. And don't say that because you heal 1 ability damage per day of rest that you wouldn't stay unconscious.
Day 1, you hit 0
Day 2, you heal 1, wake up, make a new save, fail, take ability damage, hit 0, go unconscious, before you can do anything else.
Day 3, rinse and repeat.Once you go unconscious, you need someone to constantly care for you, or you will die.
I think it's safe to say that the Pathfinder Lodge has personnel who tend to the sick and wounded members. And you wouldn't heal the damage while still inflicted by the disease - it needs to be cured first.
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I think it's safe to say that the Pathfinder Lodge has personnel who tend to the sick and wounded members.
Is it, nowhere in the guide does it say this. It says that afflictions must be resolved within the session, or they will be marked on the chronicle sheet and carry over to the next session.
To me, that says if you have a disease that you don't take care of, it carries over to the next session. I don't know why that's confusing.
And you wouldn't heal the damage while still inflicted by the disease - it needs to be cured first.
Really? Then this seems to further support my stance.
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Those can be handwaved, on the assumption that given enough time between adventures, everyone will eventually make the necessary saves.
That is a slippery slope. If we are going to assume that due to the indefinite time period you will eventually make the saves, then the same can be said about the Con draining diseases between scenarios. Given enough time, they will kill you. Either time freezes between games or it doesn't. I don't think it's fair to take the better of the two in favor of the character. The rules should be consistent. And I'm not going to presume that the player can make the save, given time, before it kills the PC.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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it is not an official answer anymore as it is a message board post. I have FAQ'd it though, so that Mike can look at it and hopefully make it official one way or another.
Which is why I prefaced it with "then-head of PFSOP". I knew people wouldn't take it as official since he's now left the position, and would just handwave it away. So, as I've said, trying to be helpful is a stupid choice on the PFS boards when things are an abstraction-vs.-reality issue.
Maybe Mike will make an official post. But right after that, you don't have to be a divination wizard to know that this argument will just continue saying the same things. If Mike steps down later, this argument will just get revived again, as people will just handwave this ruling away like Frost's.
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it is not an official answer anymore as it is a message board post. I have FAQ'd it though, so that Mike can look at it and hopefully make it official one way or another.Which is why I prefaced it with "then-head of PFSOP". I knew people wouldn't take it as official since he's now left the position, and would just handwave it away. So, as I've said, trying to be helpful is a stupid choice on the PFS boards when things are an abstraction-vs.-reality issue.
Maybe Mike will make an official post. But right after that, you don't have to be a divination wizard to know that this argument will just continue saying the same things. If Mike steps down later, this argument will just get revived again, as people will just handwave this ruling away like Frost's.
Except that when Mike makes a ruling, it goes in the FAQ. When in the FAQ, it becomes official until someone changes the FAQ. Not much leg to stand on in an argument when its in a campaign official document eh?
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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Except that when Mike makes a ruling, it goes in the FAQ. When in the FAQ, it becomes official until someone changes the FAQ. Not much leg to stand on in an argument when its in a campaign official document eh?it is not an official answer anymore as it is a message board post. I have FAQ'd it though, so that Mike can look at it and hopefully make it official one way or another.Which is why I prefaced it with "then-head of PFSOP". I knew people wouldn't take it as official since he's now left the position, and would just handwave it away. So, as I've said, trying to be helpful is a stupid choice on the PFS boards when things are an abstraction-vs.-reality issue.
Maybe Mike will make an official post. But right after that, you don't have to be a divination wizard to know that this argument will just continue saying the same things. If Mike steps down later, this argument will just get revived again, as people will just handwave this ruling away like Frost's.
So if Mike rules that all non-CON damage conditions can be handwaved away, then no one will say "But that doesn't make sense!" or "That's not consistent!"? No, they won't. They'll play that way at their tables, but they'll go down fighting about it the whole way, create a new thread about how it should be overturned, etc. I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing though. So, as I've said, it's pretty much a lose-lose trying to give an opinion that isn't the current official.