Sunder with spells


Rules Questions


As a magus can you sunder with spells and apply both feats as well when using spell combat?

Scarab Sages

Jdb4301 wrote:
As a magus can you sunder with spells and apply both feats as well when using spell combat?

Depends on the spell (and possibly the item). Frex, if you're trying to sunder with scorching ray, probably not (objects are generally immune to energy-based attacks), but maybe if you're sundering a napsack. Spells that modify attacks, however, are perfect (true strike, stone fist, etc.). In the end, the GM will decide if the spell creates an effect that can sunder.


Did you mean spellstrike? As in adding shocking grasp to your sunder attempt allong with the weapon?


Tom Baumbach wrote:
...(objects are generally immune to energy-based attacks)...

Topic aside; objects are not generally immune to energy based attacks, they merely take half damage and apply their hardness to the damage dealt, so they often take very little.

The PRD, Additional Rules wrote:
Energy Attacks: Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness. Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objects.

Scarab Sages

The Elusive Jackalope wrote:
Topic aside; objects are not generally immune to energy based attacks, they merely take half damage and apply their hardness to the damage dealt, so they often take very little.

Right. What did I say?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I sunder a sword with my hammer and shocking grasp spell, where is the hardness applied? Against the bludgeoning damage? Against the electricity damage? Against both (once each)?


I'd say that a spellstrike attack is conceptually not that far away from an attack with a magical weapon. In both cases, multiple damage sources are combined into one attack. Well, what happens if you hit someone in DR 5 armor with a +1 flaming weapon and +1d6 sneak attack? You apply the DR once to the total damage.

Hardness is similar to DR.

But since objects are specifically called out to cut energy damage in half before applying hardness, you have to do that first.

So, if your sunder attack does 10 points of damage from your weapon + 14 points of energy damage from the spell to an item with hardness 6, you actually reduce that item's hp by 11 (10+14/2-6).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Obviously, the flaming damage in your above example would ignore the DR entirely. The DR would be applied to the weapon damage and sneak attack as per the normal rules.

Dealing with objects is a bit trickier though, since energy damage not only doesn't ignore hardness, but is actually cut in half most of the time.


Oh, yeah, you're right regarding overcoming DR...

Nevertheless, why should the spell sunder work differently than what I proposed?

Given the different ruling for DR and hardness, I rephrase my opinion:

I'd say that a spellstrike sunder attack is conceptually not that far away from a sunder attack with a magical weapon. (In some cases, it's conceptually exactly the same, like when you sunder with a weapon that got Flames of the Faithful or a similar buff casted on it.) In both cases, multiple damage sources are combined into one attack.

What'd you normally do when someone tries to sunder something with a flaming weapon?

I think the same should apply to sundering with spellstrike, as in both cases you combine a magical effect with weapon damage.

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