
nthrun5000 |
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Alright, I've searched the boards and I see this has been talked over a few times, with different results.
Lets say my eidolon has 3 bite attacks, and the Grab quality. My eidolon full attacks, and grabs 3 different enemies. On its next turn, can it as a standard action, maintain those 3 grapples? Or would it only be allowed to continue the grapple on a single opponent(the grapple rules would seem to indicate this). Does the option to "simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty" allow it to grab/grapple multiple opponents.
What does seem clear is that it could full attack, grab multiple enemies, and then at the beginning of its next action, drop the grapples as a free action, full attack/grab and repeat this each round.
Any official consensus on this?

Revan |

Alright, I've searched the boards and I see this has been talked over a few times, with different results.
Lets say my eidolon has 3 bite attacks, and the Grab quality. My eidolon full attacks, and grabs 3 different enemies. On its next turn, can it as a standard action, maintain those 3 grapples? Or would it only be allowed to continue the grapple on a single opponent(the grapple rules would seem to indicate this). Does the option to "simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty" allow it to grab/grapple multiple opponents.
What does seem clear is that it could full attack, grab multiple enemies, and then at the beginning of its next action, drop the grapples as a free action, full attack/grab and repeat this each round.
Any official consensus on this?
Per RAW, it is impossible to maintain multiple grapples, except maybe with the Greater Grapple feat, which lets you make a maintain check as a move action, thus allowing you to maintain two in a turn.
I consider this a fundamental flaw in the grapple rules, created by the devs assuming humanoid forms on both sides of the grapple when they were writing the rules, but that's what the rules are.

Lab_Rat |

Lets break this down:
1) Yes you may use grab to initiate a grapple with three separate enemies. This is because the bite is initiating the grapple. I am assuming your eidolon has 3 heads?? You will get a +4 bonus to initiate a grapple due to the grab ability.
2)You will not be able to maintain all three grapples as the maintain is a standard action. Thus you can only maintain 1 of those grapples. You will get a +9 to maintain this grapple due to the grab ability and the maintain bonus. You have the option of transferring the enemy to your hands and gaining the grappled condition yourself or continue to maintain the grapple with your bite, taking a -20 to maintain the grapple but not gaining the grappled condition yourself. Note: If you have greater grapple you can maintain 2 grapples at the same time if you keep them in your mouths or if you have 2 sets of arms.

Tarantula |

Summoner rules state: "Grab (Ex): An eidolon becomes adept at grappling foes, gaining the grab ability."
So lets look at the grab ability in the universal monster rules.
"Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple."
So yes, you can use the bite that started the grapple at a -20 to try to maintain. If successful you deal that bite's damage.
Also, yes, the eidolon could full attack and grab multiple enemies. This would give them the grappled condition for their action, then on the eidlon's turn it could release the grapples and repeat. Totally RAW.
What you can't do is maintain the grapples... you would have drop and re-attack/grab each round.

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Mechanically speaking, it's stronger to start a grapple but not to maintain it. The grappled foes can't fight at full effectiveness, if they actually break, it uses up it's standard action, leaving only a move. Next round, the eidolon repeats. In effect, the eidolon is applying a strong debuff every round in addition to the damage dealt.

nthrun5000 |
Mechanically speaking, it's stronger to start a grapple but not to maintain it. The grappled foes can't fight at full effectiveness, if they actually break, it uses up it's standard action, leaving only a move. Next round, the eidolon repeats. In effect, the eidolon is applying a strong debuff every round in addition to the damage dealt.
Yeah, I guess i found it alarming to my 3.5 sensibilities that I would voluntarily give up my grapple. I think it can still be effective, if i really want to lock down an opponent I could move to pin on the second round.
At higher levels (Assuming i took these feats/evolutions) i could do something like the following. (Lets assume I've got 3 heads, 3 bites)
Round 1
-Standard Attack Bite+Grab+Constrict
-Move Action Greater Grapple to Pin+Constrict
-Swift Action to Rapid Grapple to Tie Up with rope+Constrict
Round 2
-Free Action? Swallow Whole+Constrict
-Repeat Round 1
Or if I was wanting to hit lots of foes I could do this.
Round 1
-Full Attack+Grab+Constrict
Round 2
-Free Action drop Grapple
-Full Attack+Grab+Constrict
Or I could do this.
Round 1
-Full Attack+Grab+Constrict
Round 2
-Free Action Swallow Whole+Constrict all Grabbed creatures.
-Any number of other things.
Do these 3 scenarios seem right?