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So one of my PC's is going to play a Summoner. My question as I look over his Eidolon is it looks like he spent to many PT's for it.
The player is 3rd level
With stats of
St 13
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 17
Wis 13
Char 19
His Eidolon is
Base Form: Quadriped
Starting Statistics:
Size: Medium
Speed: 40 ft.
Saves: Fort (good), Ref (good), Will (bad)
Attack: Bite (1d8) (Claws 2X (1d6)
HP: 30
Attributes Str 14, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Armor Shield Dex Mod Size Mod Natural Armor Deflect Mod Misc. Mod
AC: 19 10 0 0 4 2 3
Touch AC 14 Flat Footed AC 15
CMB 4 CMD 17
Fort Save 6 Will Save 0 Ref Save 6
Free Evolutions: Bite, limbs (legs) (3).
Evolution Pool:Points 12
Points Remaining 0
Evolutions Chosen
Legs 1 Add 1 set of legs for claws below
Claws 1 1d6
Improved Damage/bite 1 1d8
Reach 1 Bite
Pounce 1 Allows a full attack after a charge
Magic Attacks 1 Natural Weapons are magical for purposes of DR
Climb 1 As movement
Improved Natural Armor 1 +2 to natural armor
Ability Increase Dex 2 +2
Ability Increase Con 2 "+2
Skills
Name Ability Total Ranks Misc.Mod Race Mod Add 3
Bluff* Cha 4 1 3
Craft* Int 4 1 3
Fly* Dex 4 1 3
Intimidation* Cha 5 2 3
Knowledge Planes" Int 4 1 3
Perception* Wis 4 1 3
Sense Motive* Wis 5 2 3
Stealth* Dex 5 2 3
Swim* Str 4 1 3
Feats Power Attack
Cleave
I thought at level 3 that you had 5 PT's no more or less to spend on the Eidolon. Am I correct? If not how di you get the extra pts
Thanks
He does not get to give the eidolon extra ability points at character creation. He should have whatever is in the book until he levels up.
If he is playing a standard summoner then there is no way he should have 12 Evolution points in addition to the free points from the base form. He should have 5, in addition to the free ones from base form.
If he is a half elf and took the favored class bonus for summoners he would get one more point NEXT level (4th). If he has taken the feat Extra Evolution he may have one or two more but that would be it.
Sorry about that. I misunderstood the question.
The free evolutions depending on the form. These are not chosen. They are automatically applied.
From that point you have so many evolution points to spend as you choose as long as the requirements are met. The quadraped gets "bite, limbs (legs) (2)."
As a 3rd level character he also gets 5 evolution points to spend as he sees fit.
edit:clarity.
I think your player is misinterpreting the evolution points column on the eidolon table. He probably thinks when it says 5 evolution points at level 3 it means he gains 5 more. So, he thinks he would have 3+4+5 = 12 evolution points. That's false. The chart tells you what your total evolution points should be, so he should have 5 total + the free evolutions from the base form.
What exactly are the "Free" points for base form?
I see that he could do Claws 1 PT
Up damage for bit and claws 1 PT each leaving 2 PTs left to spend
It's not free points, it's free evolutions. The quadraped automatically gets two sets of legs (not 3!) and a bite. The biped gets a set of legs, a set of arms, and a set of claws. I forget what the rest get.
On top of that base (which can't be changed), he has 5 points (6 with the feat) to spend on other things.
You are correct, at 3rd level he should only have 5, the player has done something wrong.
Even if he took extra evolution, he still wouldnt have that many points. Is he a half elf? Did he maybe misinterpret the favored class bonus? Because that gives you 1 point per 4 levels you take it (thus giving him 1 extra evolution point at 4th, 8th, 12th etc). Did he take that to mean +1 at each level? Maybe with that an extra evolution (the feat) the 12pt total almost makes sense, but that isnt how that works.
Evolution Pool: The value given in this column is the total number of points in the eidolon's evolution pool.
That is pretty easy to read to me. The chart is showing you the maximum amount.
I think your player is misinterpreting the evolution points column on the eidolon table. He probably thinks when it says 5 evolution points at level 3 it means he gains 5 more. So, he thinks he would have 3+4+5 = 12 evolution points. That's false. The chart tells you what your total evolution points should be, so he should have 5 total + the free evolutions from the base form.
If this is the case, the player should also think he has a +3 BAB, and a +8 will save...
Or else he's deliberately misinterpreting for the sake of sneaking in extra power. I don't know of any table in Pathfinder where you add up all the prior values rather than using the one from the line you're currently on.
Gah, Wraith, you damn undead incorporeal multieyed ninja!
Or else he's deliberately misinterpreting for the sake of sneaking in extra power. I don't know of any table in Pathfinder where you add up all the prior values rather than using the one from the line you're currently on.
Dragon Disciple's ability boosts and natural armor increases. A few other prestige classes possibly too. But those are rare incidences and explicitly state in ability description that they stack.
Wraithstrike for the win. :)
Now I envisioned a sect of ninja whose secret master is actually an ancient abomination masked as a old man clad in robe hiding its infinite eyes of madness. Or maybe it's his secret Eidolon servant/master, who knows.
He has free evolutions, not free points. The eidolon of a 3rd level summoner gains its free evolutions and then can spend 5 points on top of those. A quadruped starts with two pairs of legs and a bite attack at no cost. Since that gives it 1 attack and the maximum number of attacks for an eidolon at 3rd level is 3, he can buy up to 2 other attacks with his evolution points.
In the eidolon table, the number of evolution points listed is the total points at a given level, not the amount gained at each level -- so the eidolon of a 3rd level summoner has 5 points, not 3+4+5. He can spend those points as desired as long as he meets all the requirements (does not oeverspend points, does not exceed maximum attack value givein in table, is of sufficiently high level, does not take an evolution a 2nd time unless the text of the evolution says that he can, etc.).
On the plus side, he can reallocate his points freely with each level gained -- he is not in any way bound by how he spent his evolution points at a prior level.
Show the GM the posts, and let him deal with it. If the GM does not make him change it do what you have to do.
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The quote from the Summoner description in APG the wraithstrike posted is the key.
Also, we are always happy to prove someone else wrong :P
What exactly are the "Free" points for base form?
My bad. There are no free 'points'. There are free evolutions. I think of them LIKE extra points but you cannot spend them, you have take the evolutions that come with the form you pick.
I spoke unclearly.
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Emailing back and forth the player his claim on his build was a sheet he got from Paizo. He sent me the sheet and I see his HUGE error, he was using Skill Points for evolution's not the build points. My explanation to him was any sheet he finds unless it has Pazio's name all over it and is "Official" It is probably wrong.
I really do not like this Auto configure sheets that some people use or plaster all over the boards as many are not accurate. I guess the only one I have found that seems to be most accurate is Hero Lab. Which BTW when I plugged his character into it, had his Eidolon WAY over built. but the sheet he used did configure it with 12. Not sure where exactly he got the sheet on Paizo's site but it is not a good sheet
I'm sure it was posted somewhere on these forums. That makes it official, right? It did come from paizo.com, after all!
</sarcasm>
I would not say all non-official sheets are wrong, but I would check any 3pp or custom made character sheet against my own handwork before I started to use it freely.
Yeah...a 3rd level summoner with a 12 point Eidolon plus the free evolutions does not need adventuring companions...
Yeah...a 3rd level summoner with a 12 point Eidolon plus the free evolutions does not need adventuring companions...
You mean that 12-point third level Eidolon does not need adventuring companion beside summoner to anchor it to this plane?
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In Sovjet Pathfinder, such an Eidolon summons you!