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Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
nosig wrote:

unique magic items are hard to place on an AR.

We don't have ARs. We have ACs (both armor class and animal companions), but no ARs. I did have an AR-15 once, but that was for work :-)

The Exchange 5/5

Romantic involvement with an NPC... let's keep it PG13 here folks!

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
nosig wrote:
Romantic involvement with an NPC... let's keep it PG13 here folks!

The romance and relationship rules found in the Jade Regent AP, as well as any other subsystem, are something Mark and I want to stay away from if at all possible. Now if you mean a Chronicle that says you get married (with all the penalties that come with that), then I guess we could look at that.

We could also issue a Chronicle later that says if you are in a romantic relationship, it has now ended, you permanently lose 2 CON points and half your wealth :) That is actually a good idea to help balance the WBL ;-) Thanks Nosig!

4/5

Jeez, with the speed you two are posting, you should just get in an IRC channel and post the conversation later. :P

The Exchange 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
nosig wrote:

unique magic items are hard to place on an AR.

We don't have ARs. We have ACs (both armor class and animal companions), but no ARs. I did have an AR-15 once, but that was for work :-)

darn it. I went to all the pain to teach myself to quit calling them Certs and taught myself the wrong term?!!! ARRRGGG!

Ok... ah, Cronical? AC for Adventure Chronicl? dang it I have to learn how to spell Chronicle... did I get it that time?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Certs were in Living City so you taught yourself wrong anyways ;-)

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
We've got a system in mind
Let me be the first to offer to play-test it, if necessary, even if it requires another one of those damn NDA's. :-)

People who have been playing Season 3 have been playtesting a few of the options I was toying with, and the results helped inform the final decision. So no need for a specific playtest; we won't be redefining how the system works, but rather how missions are designed, presented, carried out, and ultimately rewarded (in more ways than just with a Prestige Point and increased Fame).

The Exchange 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
nosig wrote:
Romantic involvement with an NPC... let's keep it PG13 here folks!

The romance and relationship rules found in the Jade Regent AP, as well as any other subsystem, are something Mark and I want to stay away from if at all possible. Now if you mean a Chronicle that says you get married (with all the penalties that come with that), then I guess we could look at that.

We could also issue a Chronicle later that says if you are in a romantic relationship, it has now ended, you permanently lose 2 CON points and half your wealth :) That is actually a good idea to help balance the WBL ;-) Thanks Nosig!

I'm almost afread to ask - (being in the 7th year of my huneymoon with a lady that plays PFS with me)... but what's WBL?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
nosig wrote:


I'm almost afread to ask - (being in the 7th year of my huneymoon with a lady that plays PFS with me)... but what's WBL?

Wealth by level.

The Exchange 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Certs were in Living City so you taught yourself wrong anyways ;-)

we called them Certs in LG days, which is where I picked up the term. Along with the habit of calling the guy running the adventure at the table the Judge rather than the GM...

Oh! and I had a M-16 from my work for a while - but had to return it when Uncle Sam released me... but never used an AR-15. (Though I know the weapon).

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
nosig wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Certs were in Living City so you taught yourself wrong anyways ;-)

we called them Certs in LG days, which is where I picked up the term. Along with the habit of calling the guy running the adventure at the table the Judge rather than the GM...

Oh! and I had a M-16 from my work for a while - but had to return it when Uncle Sam released me... but never used an AR-15. (Though I know the weapon).

By the way, you realize after year 7, your lady gets half of your Pathfinder books..........

The Exchange 5/5

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Michael Brock wrote:
nosig wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Certs were in Living City so you taught yourself wrong anyways ;-)

we called them Certs in LG days, which is where I picked up the term. Along with the habit of calling the guy running the adventure at the table the Judge rather than the GM...

Oh! and I had a M-16 from my work for a while - but had to return it when Uncle Sam released me... but never used an AR-15. (Though I know the weapon).

By the way, you realize after year 7, your lady gets half of your Pathfinder books..........

she has more than me already! LOL! or at least as many. I know the rules, "What's mine is her's and what's her's is her's too."

4/5

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Michael Brock wrote:
Beerwolf wrote:

My advice, which I'm echoing, is to put unique items on the chronicle sheets or items still unavailable for PCs of that tier. They really need to mean something, and they don't when a PC can just go purchase items listed on the chronicle sheet.

More interwoven faction missions would be great into the story lines.

Let me open up the floor for ideas about unique items. We have included them in the past (an intelligent ring and a braid). Unfortunately, it doesn't look like people are interested in buying them much. These are items you can't get anywhere else besides purchased from the specific Chronicle. What kind of unique items would be of a large appeal to a lot of players and make sense being put on a Chronicle sheet?

Slotless items are probably a good idea in general, since the item is not one the player will know about ahead of time, so they might have already purchased an item for that slot. For instance, I'm about to see what that braid does this Sunday, and, having no idea what it does, my zen archer is excited to get it in character, but if it uses the belt slot or headband slot something, it's a non-starter.

As for the ring, I know to what you refer, and it's actually really awesome and a unique opportunity. I have a player in my home group itching for that ring. I think two things are a factor there:

1) The ring costs a substantial number of prestige points and gold. Not unfairly as per the intelligent item rules, but intelligent items are vastly overpriced in PFRPG (our party Fighter in Kingmaker has a modest intelligent sword that is technically worth more than the net worth of the rest of the party combined, for instance, due to the wonky pricing there).

2) Half the fun of intelligent items is that they are another entity, controlled by the GM, that can interact with your character. In a standard PFS case, the GM will not have prepped with your intelligent ring in mind, so even if they aren't the type to sweep that under the rug anyway to keep things on track for time, they might just forget about it a lot. For the home group, this problem is lifted because the player is certain that the GM would remember the ring.

I'll give more detailed feedback on the braid (and whether my zen archer actually buys it) when I see what it does.

In summary--

Focus on slotless items that don't rely on the GM in order to be at maximum level of "cool". If the item must have a slot, don't put it in the belt or headband slot unless it's ridiculous (example--phylactery of positive channeling is so ridiculous at the lowest levels it can be purchased that it would be hopelessly broken at those levels if it didn't compete in the same slot for Wisdom and Charisma boosts).

Sometimes custom items by the book cost much more than their actual utility. If you want to see a higher percentage of people buying them off the chronicle, consider a discount if the price seems steep, or perhaps an item that grants something that is clearly unique and absolutely can't be obtained in another way.

EDIT: I literally got QFP3 in my downloads in case it's needed for PAX East right after posting, so I'll post below for the braid, in spoiler.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Michael Brock wrote:
if you mean a Chronicle that says you get married (with all the penalties that come with that), then I guess we could look at that.

I have staked my claim long ago for the Blackros twins. Dibs!

I'll use it for my Qadiran so he can start his own harem :-)

Michael Brock wrote:
you permanently lose 2 CON points and half your wealth :) That is actually a good idea to help balance the WBL ;-) Thanks Nosig!

The wealth part is right, but I think INT might be a better penalty. It's closer to losing sanity ;-)

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Bob Jonquet wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
if you mean a Chronicle that says you get married (with all the penalties that come with that), then I guess we could look at that.

I have staked my claim long ago for the Blackros twins. Dibs!

I'll use it for my Qadiran so he can start his own harem :-)

You realize when you marry a Blakros, everything you own is turned over to them. So, there is no such thing as "your own" harem. You do what they say.

Bob Jonquet wrote:


Michael Brock wrote:
you permanently lose 2 CON points and half your wealth :) That is actually a good idea to help balance the WBL ;-) Thanks Nosig!
The wealth part is right, but I think INT might be a better penalty. It's closer to losing sanity ;-)

I was thinking it was the effects of a broken heart. I figured you already failed your INT check (*Apologies ahead of time before my wife sees this*) so no need to keep piling on that stat.

4/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
We've got a system in mind
Let me be the first to offer to play-test it, if necessary, even if it requires another one of those damn NDA's. :-)

I second the motion!


I waited until my 40s to tie the knot. We're working on 2 years, and she definitely loves me, because we'll be at in July celebrating those two years! I've convinced her she's going to have fun playing.

As for unique items, I do think the wands and scrolls of higher level (those are non purchaseable). Throwing in some intelligent items again might catch on, really depends on the item.

I really liked the boon at the end of quest for perfection. Tying all those scenarios together for the reward was genius.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
By the way, you realize after year 7, your lady gets half of your Pathfinder books..........

My Wife has been asking since the day I asked her if she would marry me if we could sell all my stuff for a profit! I cry a little bit inside every time she asks me that... :(

Scarab Sages

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nosig wrote:

here's a different view on faction missions -

My wife often complains about understanding her faction missions. To such an extent that (one time in 3 or so) she will throw up her hands and just not bother. If someone else at the table has her faction too, they will often get to the cookie and say... "we need an XX skill here, 'cause we have to get YY." and she'll say "Oh, that's what that ment! sure, I got that skill, I take 10 and get ZZ". And she loves to help with other peoples missions, often having some unique skill (Knowledge Nobility anyone?). If there is no one at the table with her faction, maybe she turns to me and says "what the heck is this? can you explain what they want?". And with the noise and rush of the rest of the briefing she'll just say "never mind". and put it away. Last game she stated that she just "hate's the stupid faction missions - they just get in the way of the story".

Part of this is the habbit of handing out faction missions during the Judges briefing - so you either listen to the main mission briefing OR read your faction mission. and then players are asking for the Judge to repeat things they missed, cause they were reading the faction mission when he was talking...

I COMPLETELY agree with your wife. I really HATE faction missions. I have never liked them. I think they are a distraction from the story and under-mind the story/play at large. How can you be a member of the Pathfinder Society and have these sneaky, spy-ish, underhanded missions to do also for some other group? And they don't fit into the story and you spend 30 minutes or more hashing out each mission at the end of the game. And then the keeping it secret stuff? Whatever.

I do play PFS but I will admit that faction missions are one of the main reasons I prefer APs. Although for the sake of my hubby and his career I will say, long live PFS!!! :-)

4/5

OK, time to go all Spicer on the braid to see if I can figure out why people didn't buy it.

Braid, My Two Cents:

OK, I think I see why people didn't buy the braid--

First off, it's pretty much useless for non-monks. The movement bonus gets their hopes up "Oh, since they told me I get the speed of a 2nd level monk, that must mean monks get a speed up at level 2". And then they check the chart to find that this actually gives them nothing. Doing d6 unarmed damage which is still nonlethal and still provokes an AoO (without further support) is not helpful, and non-monks can't use the activated ability.

So we're left with the monks. That already is reason enough why you didn't see many people buying the item. It's nearly useless for all classes but one. It's actually not bad for a monk, but there's some issues.--

The static bonuses:

Adding 2 to your monk level makes the increased damage and speed boosts situational. Granted, there's only two levels from 1-12 where the braid literally gives you nothing (9 and 12), but the benefits are erratic. Contrast monk's robe, which adds 5 to your effective monk level, so since those bonuses come every 4 levels, it is guaranteed to always give you bonuses if you own a monk's robe. I think that this is actually a design flaw a la Belt of Strength +1 in that the item is probably underpriced at the levels where it grants both bonuses (levels 2, 7, and 10) and useless at levels where it grants neither (9 and 12). It also doesn't stack with monk's robe, so the braid gets obsoleted (except for the +10 move speed at 2/3 of levels)

The 3/day:

This would be a great ability if it didn't preclude the use of Ki Pool to get an extra attack. This is actually a running problem with monk-based abilities in Pathfinder. For instance, zen archers get a 5th-level ability to use unarmed damage instead of the bow's base damage, but it takes the same sort of action as getting an extra attack, and the extra attack is better, so it's essentially worthless except in corner cases where you're limited to a standard action as an archer (surprise round, etc). The braid's ability is worse than Ki Arrows, though, since you have to be flurrying, so you would always be able to make the extra attack if you didn't use the braid. If you run out of ki points, then you would use this ability for sure. So the item would be worthwhile just for this ability if it was a free action rather than swift. As a swift action, it's basically a backup for when you are running on fumes. It would be worth it for a monk who doesnt have Ki Pool yet, though, but they would have to save up much of their money to buy the braid.

Full Analysis: The action economy is a big issue for the activatable ability and the static ability is a bit weird in that its effects are erratic based on your level, sometimes making the item grant you no static bonuses at all.

Will My Character Buy It?: If I do, it will be completely for roleplay reasons, since the item is even less useful to zen archers due to the lack of utility of the increased unarmed damage. I'd probably also have to get into a rules discussion to use the 3/day ability vis-a-vis the Mighty component of a bow and the 1.5x Strength bonus and I'd expect table variation.

4/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
By the way, you realize after year 7, your lady gets half of your Pathfinder books..........
My Wife has been asking since the day I asked her if she would marry me if we could sell all my stuff for a profit! I cry a little bit inside every time she asks me that... :(

Its time to get a Mancave...Mine helps keep the kids and the wife out! :)


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Death Is Not the End.:

Most players have an aversion to their characters dying. Some even hate to spend PA to get their characters raised from the dead. Some, like me, are saving their PA in order to raise the character should it die. Raising a character from the dead would likely only work once, as it would be unlikely for a character to earn enough PA to raise them a second time.

That said, I think designers have an aversion to killing characters. Most scenarios are cake walks for characters. This is understandable because if character mortality rises then very few would ever make it to play higher level scenarios. Then those players that raise characters to higher level play would become even more averse to their characters dying.

It would be nice to not have to retire the character when they die. Then the scenarios could be made to be tougher and more challenging. I would suggest giving the dead character the experience for the scenario but not any of the other benefits and loot. This way players of dead characters would be encouraged to keep the chronicle sheets that record their deaths.

We already suspend disbelief in that many other characters fought the same opponents that ours killed, or stole the same loot that we stole, even though we only adventured with 5 or 6 other characters. Having a character come back after dying would be no different from every other time it happens through raise dead.


Mark Moreland wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
rpgsavant wrote:
On to my one and only gripe about PFS: Pass or fail faction missions. If nobody in the party has the requisite skill to pass the mission, there is no possible way to work around it. In essence I agree with Jeff's number 4.
This Subject is interesting, seems to me that Half of PFS wants Missions to be more difficult and the other half wants them to be easier..
Discounting difficulty, in what other ways would folks like to see faction missions improved? We had a 3.5 hour meeting yesterday on the topic and have a plan to revamp the system, but I'm curious what changes the community would make if put in our shoes.

I used to not like faction missions back when I first started Society play, but now I realize they bring a lot of depth to the metagame. Without the faction missions players are likely to blast their way through encounters in search of the final objective. As they are, faction missions are something of a brake that allows for deeper exploration of a scenario.

They're not perfect, but I wouldn't get rid of them. Some of the problem seems to arise when the faction missions just seem to be tacked onto the adventure. I'm looking at the late Baron Jaquo here. Nothing is sadder than watching a hulking, half-orc barbarian come out of his rage so he can delicately pack up a Tian tea set.

I would also like to say that prestige points shouldn't be a sure thing. If it is next to impossible for a character to succeed at the mission then that's just the way it is, prestige is not guaranteed.

Shadow Lodge 2/5

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We've gotten a bit away from the OP I think and delved into faction missions (an excellent topic!!) but I have something for the OP.

In almost every mod there are several paragraphs of background for the 'Judges eyes only' at the beginning of the scenario. Often it's the glue that holds the whole thing together and yet the characters never hear of it!!

I try to incorporate that material when I can throughout the adventure, but it can be tough. I'd love to see that material played out more for the players and not just the judge. I guess in short, what I mean is more role play (spaced out throughout the scenario) possibly at the expense of one of the combat encounters.

5/5

Jim Groves wrote:

Hi Folks,

I've been reading threads like "You Used To Play PFS, But Now..." and it's got me wondering something.

What can we do to help?

And I don't want to disparage that discussion, I think it's fine. Enlightening even. Nevertheless, it (if just by the way the discussion is framed) emphasizes the negative with a side order of mourning. That's why I decided to start a brand new thread.

I'm also NOT posting in any official capacity, other than a concerned member of the community- just like all of you.

This is exactly why I started that thread, to collect feedback from former players and for the community and its leaders to generate ideas that prevent current players from becoming former players.

edit: players = participants

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Euan wrote:

In almost every mod there are several paragraphs of background for the 'Judges eyes only' at the beginning of the scenario. Often it's the glue that holds the whole thing together and yet the characters never hear of it!!

I try to incorporate that material when I can throughout the adventure, but it can be tough. I'd love to see that material played out more for the players and not just the judge. I guess in short, what I mean is more role play (spaced out throughout the scenario) possibly at the expense of one of the combat encounters.

This, this, dear all that is evil and unholy, this! I lost track trying to count how many times Sir Miles and I discussed this very topic.

It seems like I always have to work my arse off to get any of the background in front the players eyes.

Dark Archive 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Euan wrote:

In almost every mod there are several paragraphs of background for the 'Judges eyes only' at the beginning of the scenario. Often it's the glue that holds the whole thing together and yet the characters never hear of it!!

I try to incorporate that material when I can throughout the adventure, but it can be tough. I'd love to see that material played out more for the players and not just the judge. I guess in short, what I mean is more role play (spaced out throughout the scenario) possibly at the expense of one of the combat encounters.

1) I would like to see an epilogue of some sort on the chronicle. It then helps you to later recapture the memory of that particular scenario and that you made a difference. This aide memoir would also be especially useful after playing multiple scenarios at a convention.

EDIT:
2) I would really like if there were only 3 core encounters in a scenario - possibly have extra optional depth to each encounter rather than more core encounters. From a players perspective it allows more time for role-playing and for GMs it means they can properly run them in short slots.

* Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Kyle Baird wrote:

This is exactly why I started that thread, to collect feedback from former players and for the community and its leaders to generate ideas that prevent current players from becoming former players.

edit: players = participants

It wasn't a slam, honest Kyle. Sometimes you get just what you ask for. So if you ask for what is wrong, you get complaints. If you ask for what would make someone happy, you get that answer instead.

I.e "What's wrong with dinner?" versus "What would you like for dessert?"

I didn't mean to undercut you in anyway, and if it came across that way, I sincerely apologize.

* Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Kyle Baird wrote:

This, this, dear all that is evil and unholy, this! I lost track trying to count how many times Sir Miles and I discussed this very topic.

It seems like I always have to work my arse off to get any of the background in front the players eyes.

Noted!

Sometimes I wonder if the scenarios have such a set formula that authors are edgy about deviating from it. So the pattern repeats itself over and over.

This is interesting to me because I did something a little different in the Haunting of Hinojai.

Teeny tiny spoiler. I personally don't think it will wreck the adventure at all, but I'll play it absolutely safe.

Spoiler:
I basically said the VC only has limited information, because the site is in Minkai, and she's in Absalom. So can give the mission and answer a few questions, but she basically suggests they do their legwork out in the field. And in the nearby town the players do their information gathering with the locals, rather than the obligatory VC info dump.

That being said, I really felt like I was doing something radical. We might need to make our authors aware that there is some room to change the formula up a little bit. I dunno. Whatchya think?

5/5

Jim Groves wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:

This, this, dear all that is evil and unholy, this! I lost track trying to count how many times Sir Miles and I discussed this very topic.

It seems like I always have to work my arse off to get any of the background in front the players eyes.

Noted!

Sometimes I wonder if the scenarios have such a set formula that authors are edgy about deviating from it. So the pattern repeats itself over and over.

This is interesting to me because I did something a little different in the Haunting of Hinojai.

Teeny tiny spoiler. I personally don't think it will wreck the adventure at all, but I'll play it absolutely safe.

** spoiler omitted **

As one who is prepping that scenario .. I saw that and was intrigued ... all in all AWESOME scenario btw

*hides behind her fanbunny sign*

Dark Archive 4/5

For GMs:

3)Better Fonts and better break out of different types of content. My eyes aren't getting any younger and I find the thin, light, italicised font of the descriptive text hard to read.

The different types of content within the scenario should all be clearly delineated in some way: plot, descriptive text, creatures, mission criteria, rewards, skill checks. I find it very easy to overlook detail in the current format as it all runs together. I find myself, inserting boxes, highlighting and marking up to achieve this manually when I get lots of prep time.

5/5

Jim Groves wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:

This is exactly why I started that thread, to collect feedback from former players and for the community and its leaders to generate ideas that prevent current players from becoming former players.

edit: players = participants

It wasn't a slam, honest Kyle. Sometimes you get just what you ask for. So if you ask for what is wrong, you get complaints. If you ask for what would make someone happy, you get that answer instead.

I.e "What's wrong with dinner?" versus "What would you like for dessert?"

I didn't mean to undercut you in anyway, and if it came across that way, I sincerely apologize.

My statement's meaning got lost in the webs of the internets. I was just making a statement that the other thread was merely the beginning.

5/5

ZomB wrote:

For GMs:

3)Better Fonts and better break out of different types of content. My eyes aren't getting any younger and I find the thin, light, italicised font of the descriptive text hard to read.

The different types of content within the scenario should all be clearly delineated in some way: plot, descriptive text, creatures, mission criteria, rewards, skill checks. I find it very easy to overlook detail in the current format as it all runs together. I find myself, inserting boxes, highlighting and marking up to achieve this manually when I get lots of prep time.

I've found myself doing the same thing with highlighters -- and I'm betting I'm younger than you... but I have a simple easy to remember way of it

Green -- equals skill checks
purple -- faction missions
pink/red -- scenario information that needs to be remembered to addlib in

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
ZomB wrote:

For GMs:

3)Better Fonts and better break out of different types of content. My eyes aren't getting any younger and I find the thin, light, italicised font of the descriptive text hard to read.

The different types of content within the scenario should all be clearly delineated in some way: plot, descriptive text, creatures, mission criteria, rewards, skill checks. I find it very easy to overlook detail in the current format as it all runs together. I find myself, inserting boxes, highlighting and marking up to achieve this manually when I get lots of prep time.

I've found myself doing the same thing with highlighters -- and I'm betting I'm younger than you... but I have a simple easy to remember way of it

Green -- equals skill checks
purple -- faction missions
pink/red -- scenario information that needs to be remembered to addlib in

Doesn't every GM just memorize the entire scenario including stat blocks? Odd..

5/5

Care Baird wrote:
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
ZomB wrote:

For GMs:

3)Better Fonts and better break out of different types of content. My eyes aren't getting any younger and I find the thin, light, italicised font of the descriptive text hard to read.

The different types of content within the scenario should all be clearly delineated in some way: plot, descriptive text, creatures, mission criteria, rewards, skill checks. I find it very easy to overlook detail in the current format as it all runs together. I find myself, inserting boxes, highlighting and marking up to achieve this manually when I get lots of prep time.

I've found myself doing the same thing with highlighters -- and I'm betting I'm younger than you... but I have a simple easy to remember way of it

Green -- equals skill checks
purple -- faction missions
pink/red -- scenario information that needs to be remembered to addlib in

Not all of us have the freetime that you have .. some of us have lives

Doesn't every GM just memorize the stat blocks?

Dark Archive 4/5

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:

I've found myself doing the same thing with highlighters -- and I'm betting I'm younger than you... but I have a simple easy to remember way of it

Green -- equals skill checks
purple -- faction missions
pink/red -- scenario information that needs to be remembered to addlib in

Yup, something similar here.

It's just a bit irritating when for example the skill check or descriptive text is buried in the middle of plot, or looks like its part of the creature details, etc.

Dark Archive 4/5

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4) More player handouts and maps. It's always nice to give the players something tangible. I try to bring relevant generic maps, etc, to put on the table, and often print out images from the scenario for atmosphere, but scenario specific handouts like the Blakros museum visitors map or Kortos mountain trails are good.

5/5

ZomB wrote:
4) More player handouts and maps. It's always nice to give the players something tangible. I try to bring relevant generic maps, etc, to put on the table, and often print out images from the scenario for atmosphere, but scenario specific handouts like the Blakros museum visitors map or Kortos mountain trails are good.

While I agree that I'd love to see more official handouts in scenarios, nothing is stopping a GM from creating their own. I have roughly 20 different hand outs for Midnight Mauler. Everything from knowledge checks to important NPCs to facts about Ustalav.

More hand outs empower players to become immersed in the action w/o having to stop and ask me for information I've already provided (or an NPC provided in the previous act, etc).


That did make me think of something else.

During the background and each of the faction missions, many names were mentioned. But since they were the usual odd made-up names, the GM couldn't figure out how to pronounce them. So I couldn't figure out how to write them down. So we were constantly saying "that one dude we talked to at the begining said is was the other chick that might be in charge of the..."

If some of those names and titles had been on a little handout card, it might have gone smoother.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Mark Moreland wrote:
Discounting difficulty, in what other ways would folks like to see faction missions improved? We had a 3.5 hour meeting yesterday on the topic and have a plan to revamp the system, but I'm curious what changes the community would make if put in our shoes.

Since Season 0, I've been expecting a meta-plot running through the mission briefings. Cheliax wants to spy on Noble X, and wants this spell component, and wants to uncover the secret of making that kind of undead ... and then at the end of the season, Noble X is corrupted into an unspeakable walking dead in the middle of his address to the Taldan Assembly.

So far, I've been waiting in vain, but I've built up some fanciful plotlines from imagining what the metaplots could be.


Rene Duquesnoy wrote:

Fewer swarms

** spoiler omitted **

I would expand this to say: Fewer puzzle monsters. (E.g. monsters with incorporeality or invisibility or deeper darkness, etc.)

And, as noted above: Better treasure on chronicles. (E.g. not just a laundry list of potions and scrolls that even the least Famous character has available to purchase.)

I'm also not a fan of faction missions (90% of them add almost nothing to the scenario), but I suspect those are here to stay.

Dataphiles 3/5

Well Mike and Mark have said they have a new faction mission strategy, but I will put my two cents down anyway.

Sometimes a faction mission is based on a single skill in which the player just doesn't have a good bonus, and no chance of making the DC listed. So, I would not have a mission's success hinge on a single skill. The option of two different skills doubles the chance of a player having at least a shot at succeeding. (I have not seen players helping each other that often on faction missions. But each player should have "some chance" at succeeding on their own faction mission by themself.)

Also, I would have the DC for "skill check faction missions" be dependent on the tier played. High DCs are harder at lower tiers.

But overall, it is deflating to have roleplayed well, listened closely, followed all the clues, played your character intelligently and then have your faction mission come down to a d20 roll. Even if you have a +12 in the skill needed you could roll a 2. So you failed because of a low roll. If that is all a faction mission is, then list the faction mission DCs at the front of the mod, have everyone roll their check to see if they succeeded or failed their mission and get it out of the way.

To summarize, I like the factions. I like the faction missions. "Skill check faction missions" are my least favorite.

Also, others have touched on this already. Some scenarios certain factions have skill check missions, while others have objectives such as "tell an NPC something" or "drop something off somewhere." Players may resent what they see as unequal challenges in the faction missions.

hope that helps

Shadow Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

I for one would like to maybe get access to an item because of a faction mission that only those of that faction get access to.

For instance, if my faction mission is to recover some lost tome of azlanti history, on the chronicle I could pay 1 pp (that I received for getting the tome) to keep the tome instead of returning it for a +2 bonus on history (azlanti).

Now I wouldn't expect that every chronicle would have 10 unique items like that, but every now and then for particular faction missions it would be cool.

Dataphiles 3/5

Other than faction missions...

I would include in the summary a bulleted list giving a very brief description of the most important NPCs.

Having a concise list of NPCs in one spot may be of some help to the DM.
Names, race, nationality, how each is connected to the others - that sort of stuff.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Back in Year 0, each faction had a specific list of potions and other items you could purchase with increasing Prestige/Fame, and they were flavored around the nature of each faction. Perhaps Chronicles could have faction-specific rewards or boons as well, based on succeeding at faction missions or fame levels?

Silver Crusade 2/5

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:

I for one would like to maybe get access to an item because of a faction mission that only those of that faction get access to.

For instance, if my faction mission is to recover some lost tome of azlanti history, on the chronicle I could pay 1 pp (that I received for getting the tome) to keep the tome instead of returning it for a +2 bonus on history (azlanti).

Now I wouldn't expect that every chronicle would have 10 unique items like that, but every now and then for particular faction missions it would be cool.

This is something I really like. I would like to see more Faction specific items, that actually come into play. A tome is nice, but lets slowly move it up. Andorans could start selling items that boost against mind control, Chelaxians could sell demonbane weapons at lower than market price.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:


Since Season 0, I've been expecting a meta-plot running through the mission briefings. Cheliax wants to spy on Noble X, and wants this spell component, and wants to uncover the secret of making that kind of undead ... and then at the end of the season, Noble X is corrupted into an unspeakable walking dead in the middle of his address to the Taldan Assembly.

So far, I've been waiting in vain, but I've built up some fanciful plotlines from imagining what the metaplots could be.

I hope you come to the PFS members meeting at Gen Con.

Dark Archive 4/5

hogarth wrote:
Rene Duquesnoy wrote:

Fewer swarms

** spoiler omitted **
I would expand this to say: Fewer puzzle monsters. (E.g. monsters with incorporeality or invisibility or deeper darkness, etc.)

Or large hardness or DR at first/low level. I'm looking at you

Spoiler:
Echoes of the Overwatched
5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:


Since Season 0, I've been expecting a meta-plot running through the mission briefings. Cheliax wants to spy on Noble X, and wants this spell component, and wants to uncover the secret of making that kind of undead ... and then at the end of the season, Noble X is corrupted into an unspeakable walking dead in the middle of his address to the Taldan Assembly.

So far, I've been waiting in vain, but I've built up some fanciful plotlines from imagining what the metaplots could be.

I hope you come to the PFS members meeting at Gen Con.

Where we can shove him in a sack and take turns beating him with a wooden cane?

5/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:


Since Season 0, I've been expecting a meta-plot running through the mission briefings. Cheliax wants to spy on Noble X, and wants this spell component, and wants to uncover the secret of making that kind of undead ... and then at the end of the season, Noble X is corrupted into an unspeakable walking dead in the middle of his address to the Taldan Assembly.

So far, I've been waiting in vain, but I've built up some fanciful plotlines from imagining what the metaplots could be.

I hope you come to the PFS members meeting at Gen Con.
Where we can shove him in a sack and take turns beating him with a wooden cane?

Now I'm really sad I'm going to miss gencon this year :(

One wonders if that's the hazing for becoming a 5th star GM and if the rules are different for girls

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