When an alchemist drinks a Feral Mutagen, does his claw/bite attacks count as a natural weapon for the purpose of Feral Combat Training?
Thanks!
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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You can take Weapon Focus for any natural weapon, including those you don't possess because Weapon Focus requires proficiency in a weapon and you are always proficient in natural weapons you possess. You can by extension also take Feral Combat Training because FCT only requires Weapon Focus.
Sean has posted explicitly that this is legal.
You can't take Improved Natural Weapon because the weapon is temporary and INW requires you have the weapon.
I agree with these interpretations. This is one reason a druid can take Weapon Focus (Bite).
Thanks!
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Feral combat training requires that you have Weapon focus on your Natural weapon. Temporary natural weapons are not valid for taking Weapon Focus feat so you do not meet the pre-reqs for taking this feat.
Actually, yes they are. Paizo people have said. You only need to be proficient in a weapon to take Focus with it, and your proficiencies don't change based on whether you've actually got the weapon or not.
Now, something like Eldritch Claws that requires you to actually have a Natural Weapon isn't allowed on temporary ones, but Feral Combat Training should work fine.
EDIT: Wow, ninja'd a bunch.
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Let me re-phrase that since I quoted the incorrect part.
No you can't since you only have temporary natural weapons and for you to qualify for this feat you would need to have access to those weapons all the time.
This was laid out by SKR in this post here:
I mis-remembered why alchemists can't take most of the natural attack feats and had to go looking for that explanatory post
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It's funny that you linked that thread because that is the exact thread where Sean explicitly says an alchemist with Feral Mutagen can take Weapon Focus (Claws), "because we don't have a temporary/permanent toggle for proficiencies in the rules."
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Right, it also states that:
Jason is falling on the side of "unless you have it all the time, it's not 'reliable,' so it doesn't count." To which I reply, "that means if I'm a sor/wiz who learns and casts overland flight every day (1 hour/level), at level 16+ I'm able to fly every minute of the day that I'm normally awake, yet I still don't qualify for the feat." To which he replies, "yep, but otherwise a 5th-level wizard who knows fly can take Flyby Attack, which is really a 'shortcut feat' [in that its effect is much like Spring Attack without having to take all the prereqs] and is probably too good."
Alchemists do not have a reliable means of having natural weapons ALL THE TIME, so it's not reliable and therefore doesn't meet the pre-reqs for feral combat training (ie a natural weapon).
Weapon focus is the exception, Feral Alchemists don't meet the pre-req for the rest of the natural attack feats.
(I remembered the post but forgot that it was the followup that clarified it. Sue me, I made a mistake on the details not the results)
Dennis is correct.
Here is a parallel example:
Certain feats require you to have an INT of 13. You can have that INT of 13 by virtue of an ability-increasing magic item, and actually take those feats.
Should you lose the item and no longer have an INT of 13, the feat no longer provides you with its benefit. You still have the feat, but it ceases to grant its benefit until such time that the prerequisite is met again. (Granted it's silly to do that, but it's possible and that is how it works).
Ogre's examples are actually much more relevant here, but its not the first time that the use of a feat can come and go with the prerequisite.
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And if this were in regards to an ability score requirement you would be kinda correct (the rules state it has to be an ability increase that lasted longer then 24 hours before it would qualify you to take that feat). None of the alchemists natural attacks last more then 24 hours so they are not permanent bonuses/abilities. Temporary abilities do not qualify you to take feats with pre-reqs.
The above quote from JKR is stating how the rules work for abilities not ability scores. Slight difference but by the above ruling the Alchemist shouldn't qualify.
@Ogre, the text of feral combat training states:
Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
I see what you are saying and since having natural attacks isn't on the pre-req line you may be right. The alchemist doesn't actually have a (permanent) natural attack to use with this feat so it's suspect (at least to me and my DM's).
So long story short, you can get +1 to hit with a nat attack, even if it's temp, but can't take other feats for said non perm abilities... like a dice increase for a synthesist's slam, or flyby attack for a cleric of travel.
Can an alchemist get multi attack or multiweapon fighting with vestigual arms?