Gun slingers and musket fire rate

[SIRHITMANHEART]

hi i got a 3rd lvl gunslinger that is thinking of takeing rapid reload as a feat. but if i do does pulling triger count as a free action, standard action or part of my standard action.

[Helaman]

It is like any other feat for the crossbow... its not the pulling the trigger thats the issue... thats the standard action (attack) - its the time needed until you can pull it again.

Quote:

Benefit: The time required for you to reload your chosen type of weapon is reduced to a free action (for a hand or light crossbow), a move action (for heavy crossbow or onehanded firearm), or [b]a standard action (two-handed firearm)[b]. Reloading a crossbow or firearm still provokes attacks of opportunity.

If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a fullattack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.

Normal: A character without this feat needs a move action to reload a hand or light crossbow, a standard action to reload a one-handed firearm, or a full-round action to load a heavy crossbow or a two-handed firearm.

Assume you dont have it and have a musket? Then ALL round after you have fired you are reloading - cant move, nothing... IF you have rapid reload then next road you LOSE your standard but you can move and take a swift action.

However IF you can get Alchemical Cartridges AND Rapid reload together? You can make it a MOVE action to reload to reload that musket... meaning you can load, fire, load, fire etc with the odd 5 foot step.

For a pistol/ Rapid reload AND the cartridge makes reloading a free action, otherwise without the cartridge is fire and then reload as your move action.

Quote:

An alchemical cartridge is a prepared bundle of black powder with a bullet or pellets, sometimes with more exotic material added, which is then wrapped in paper or cloth and sealed with beeswax, lard, or tallow. There are many types of alchemical cartridges, the simplest being the paper cartridge—a simple mix of black powder and either pellets or a bullet. Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier, reducing the time to load a firearm by one step (a full-round action becomes a standard action, a standard action becomes a move action, and a move action becomes a free action), but they tend to be unstable. The misfire value of a weapon firing an alchemical cartridge increases as listed in each entry.

[Helaman]

Incidently Musketeer is my preferred Gunslinger Archetype... I can always spend a feat to use pistols later.

[cranewings]

Helaman wrote:

Incidently Musketeer is my preferred Gunslinger Archetype... I can always spend a feat to use pistols later.

The 5th level Musketeer in my current game nearly soloed a diretiger.

The creature started 300 feet away. When it got within 60 feet the monk jumped on it and got one-shotted, but slowed it down for a round. The gunslinger was up in a tree and started climbing to get away from it. He got to the top and fired down on it, killing it the action before it would have gotten a full attack on it and killed him.

The break in its run through the dense woods the monk provided certainly helped a little. The tiger was literally nipping at his toes, but doing so much damage with a masterwork pepperbox rifle from so far away is amazing.

The goblin druid had given the thing barkskin already, which didn't help it much.

[Lakesidefantasy]

Pulling the trigger is a part of your attack action.

This means, assuming you're using an early, two-handed firearm and considering reducing the reload time from a full-round action to a standard action with Rapid Reload, you can still only fire that thing once every other round.

[JohnF]

Lakesidefantasy wrote:

Pulling the trigger is a part of your attack action.

This means, assuming you're using an early, two-handed firearm and considering reducing the reload time from a full-round action to a standard action with Rapid Reload, you can still only fire that thing once every other round.

Yep. Assuming the appropriate "Rapid Reload" feat, it's a close thing between a musket (1D12 every other round) and a pistol (1D8 every round); which does more damage on average depends on your chance to hit. The odds also change (in favour of the musket) if there is a possibility of damage reduction.

[Lakesidefantasy]

I go for the axe musket myself. That first shot is just for show and then its back to hacking up monsters the old fashioned way--one bloody piece at a time. :)

[JohnF]

Lakesidefantasy wrote:

I go for the axe musket myself. That first shot is just for show and then its back to hacking up monsters the old fashioned way--one bloody piece at a time. :)

The game mechanic in me agrees with you. Getting in touch with my role-playing side, though, means I'm a bit worried that I'll bend the thing (with potentially 'interesting' side effects the next time it is fired).

Flintlock + bayonet could work, though.

[Deadmanwalking]

Lakesidefantasy wrote:

Pulling the trigger is a part of your attack action.

This means, assuming you're using an early, two-handed firearm and considering reducing the reload time from a full-round action to a standard action with Rapid Reload, you can still only fire that thing once every other round.

Toss in Alchemical Cartridges and it drops to a Free and Move Action, respectively. Totally worth it for the musket user, IMO.

[Helaman]

Ooooh yeah and free if you use the musket master

[Threeshades]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Lakesidefantasy wrote:

Pulling the trigger is a part of your attack action.

This means, assuming you're using an early, two-handed firearm and considering reducing the reload time from a full-round action to a standard action with Rapid Reload, you can still only fire that thing once every other round.

Toss in Alchemical Cartridges and it drops to a Free and Move Action, respectively. Totally worth it for the musket user, IMO.

To me it's worth for both musket and pistol users to use alchemical cartridges.

Paper cartridges are what makes guns managable. And they are only 1 GP up from a bullet and dose of black powder.

[Deadmanwalking]

Threeshades wrote:

To me it's worth for both musket and pistol users to use alchemical cartridges.

Paper cartridges are what makes guns managable. And they are only 1 GP up from a bullet and dose of black powder.

More of a difference than that for a Gunslinger (6 GP per shot, vs. 1 GP + 1 SP per shot), but yeah, still worth it. Unless you've already got it down to a Free Action in other ways (doable with pistols).

[Threeshades]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Threeshades wrote:

To me it's worth for both musket and pistol users to use alchemical cartridges.

Paper cartridges are what makes guns managable. And they are only 1 GP up from a bullet and dose of black powder.

More of a difference than that for a Gunslinger (6 GP per shot, vs. 1 GP + 1 SP per shot), but yeah, still worth it. Unless you've already got it down to a Free Action in other ways (doable with pistols).

Well yeah, with gunsmithing you can make regular ammunition a lot cheaper than alchemical cartridges.