| thoynan |
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So my question is, can a gladiator or dragoon archetype retrain performance weapon mastery/ mounted combat or skill focus:ride?
I want to say yes for the gladiator, since he gets performance mastery in addition to his bonus feats, but for dragoon, it states that those two feats replace your lvl 1 fighter bonus feat, BUT, they are noted as being bonus feats.
| Bardic Dave |
I'd say no to both. The fighter ability to retrain bonus feats only applies to bonus feats gained through the fighter bonus feats class feature, not bonus feats gained from other sources, such as the gladiator / dragoon / lore warden class features.
I agree that the wording is not unambiguous on this point, but if you interpret it otherwise, then you open the door to vampire fighters re-training their vampire bonus feats, or multiclass monk fighters retraining unarmed strike.
| thoynan |
I think that if your feats are combat feats, also known as 'fighter bonus feats', given from fighter, your 4th lvl fighter retraining should let you retrain your "fighter bonus feats", combat listed feats you got from the fighter class.
And since dragoon and gladiator don't replace the same abilities, an 8th lvl gladiator dragoon could retrain mounted combat and performance weapon mastery at 4th and 8th, but not skill focus: ride, since it's not a combat feat.
I see what you are saying about monk, but monks can't retrain bonus feats at certain intervals. An unarmed fighter could retrain IUS, as long as it's not a prereq for a prc or feat.
Is there any errata on bonus feat retraining? Other than gladiator is not a pfs archetype, haha.
| Bardic Dave |
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with your interpretation. The normal fighter bonus feats are gained via the class feature "Bonus Feats". The text allowing for the retraining of bonus feats is found under the heading for this same class feature.
In contrast, the Gladiator gains Performance Weapon Mastery through the class feature "Weapon and Armor Proficiency". Should a regular fighter be allowed to retrain Heavy Armor Proficiency for a new bonus feat? Because that's essentially what you are arguing for.
Likewise, the Dragoon gains Mounted Combat through the class feature "Skilled Rider (Ex)". A reasonable interpretation could be that it therefore doesn't qualify as a bonus feat for the purposes of the retraining text found under the "Bonus Feats" class feature.
There is some room for your argument if you go by the strict RAW. However, my interpretation is equally in line with the RAW. The wording on this class feature is somewhat ambiguous.
Given the inherent cheesiness of what you're trying to accomplish though, (suddenly the Dragoon's "Skilled Rider (Ex)" class feature grants him power attack instead of mounted combat) I think it's safe to say that your interpretation is definitely not RAI.
| Bardic Dave |
Re: The multiclass monk thing, there is no text in the section on retraining bonus feats that would limit retraining solely to bonus feats granted by the fighter class. You can read one in, but it's not there. A liberal interpretation would allow retraining of any bonus feat granted by any class or race.
Common sense says otherwise however, so I guess where you draw the line and where I draw the line on which feats can be retrained just comes down to what we each consider to be the common sense interpretation of the ability.