New to PnP, really confused about the depth of GMing


Advice


I am completely new to PnP RPGs but not at all new to cRPGs or the RPG experience in general. I used to play the Jackson & Livingstone CYOA books as a little boy and have been playing cRPGs for over 10 years. I seriously love the imagination and concepts that exist in these worlds, and I've often nearly got into PnP stuff, but it's not until very recently, largely thanks to the Beginner Box, that I've really taken the plunge. The problem isn't the complex combat rules or anything like that - I love that stuff and now it comes pretty naturally to me - it's actually more the GMing and, um, "ambient roleplaying" (for want of a better phrase) that always confuses and confounds me. As you all no doubt know, the various cRPGs such as Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment and Neverwinter Nights all do a great job of embodying the combat systems of DnD-type gaming, but everything the GM would do is done by prescripted sections and game developer designed NPCs. That's wonderful when you're engrossed in those games, but now that I'm trying to do this "for real" (not to bash the PC/console versions of RPGs) I feel totally lost when it comes to certain elements that I'm sure you old veterans all take for granted.

It's really hard for me to put into words what I find so confusing and consequentially off-putting, but I'll try. It basically boils down to the non-linearity putting a potentially infinite strain on the GM. In a computer game, you have what you have. Maybe it's a relatively limited world like Torment, maybe it's a vast world like World of Warcraft. In either case, there's no room for argument - you have what you have. With PnP it feels like the player could say "Well I slap the barmaid for not telling me the whole story" and then suddenly I have to figure out how she'd act, how the landlord would act, how any nearby customers would act. Or they may say they steal a boat and row out into the ocean. Indeed, how that would affect the future of the adventure. In a town, there are potentially 1000s of NPCs and yet I doubt it is expected of the GM to have lines and information waiting for all of these Schrödinger-esque people (they both do and don't exist, only asking them a question confirms their existence...)

So even on the most rudimentary of levels, how does one depict a town and how does one allow the players to interact? Must I map 600 barrels and their loot? Must I populate all of the 100s of buildings? Or is everything meant to be generated procedurally, and if so, does that not slow things down somewhat? Going on from that, if the players leave the village, in a cRPG they would walk along a road - but here am I meant to map out a road with trees, a ruined cart, broken crates with gold pieces within? Is every yard to be mapped, or do I simply say "You leave town and arrive at the cave... and now you are in the cave?" I feel more questions will arise with answers (should anyone be kind enough to read my ramblings and answer) but for now answers to the previous questions and worries would be greatly appreciated.


It isn't advisable to try to detail every object and person in even a tiny hamlet. There really just shouldn't be much of interest in barrels, crates, etc. As GM, you decide what you want to be exceptional, i.e. which crates and barrels have loot.

For the NPCs, it is again not advisable to try to detail all of them. Instead, have a few prepared in advance for regular, everyday occurences. People like typical guards, merchants, farmers, etc. You can create others you need on-the-fly.

Now, important NPCs (those tied to the plot of your story, those regularly interacting with your PCs, etc.), these need to be detailed to a degree. If you expect them to get into a fight, you'll need combat stats. You might very well wing it when it comes to their skills and feats if they're noncombatants, but at the least I'd advise knowing their motivations, background, and potential roles in the game.

For going overland, you can detail this or not. For some groups, it's OK to say "you left town and arrived at your destination". Others want to enjoy the trip, see a few things, then arrive. You don't need to map it all out, just have some idea what you have out there. Even the party rangers and druids aren't likely to get much benefit from knowing that the forest is primarily sassafras and tulip poplar with a flowering dogwood/American holly understory.

Really, the video game RPG gives you all this information and more. But at the tabletop, preparing things to this level is beyond what most GMs can expect to accomplish. Those games like Torment? The work of months and months to reach that level of detail, spread over an entire team. You're one person as GM, so you have to decide what information you really need and prepare that. The rest you can improvise.

That's my best answer to your question, I hope it helps clear things up! If not, some of the other posters will undoubtedly come along and help.


Don't be afraid to take pauses and breaks.

Your players will probably accept whatever decisions you make, and will follow your lead.

I love the improvisational aspect of G.M.ing, but I can see how daunting it must be for a neophyte.

You will never be perfect. Just work at being plausible and fun.

It may help to link NPCs with people you know in real life. If that barmaid is re-skinned from your local coffee waitress, you ought to have a good idea how she would react. This doesn't have to be done ahead of time. If a player throws you a curve-ball, think about your own life, and re-skin it accordingly.


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The good news is that there are plenty of premade NPCs available to help you if you ever do need their stats. Most of the time though, you won't need them. If you are concerned with your players smacking around the locals, once they learn the consequences of their actions (the town guard), they should stop quickly. As they increase in levels, they will probably not want to waste their time with most.

Also, if they are slapping people around, you are within your rights as GM to tell them that they are working toward an alignment shift toward evil. If you don't allow evil PCs in your group, then they simply become NPCs and they have to make a new character. Either you will tire of that and kick them out or they will tire of it and knock it off or leave.

I would run some modules first to see how they structure things. It can give you an idea of what detail you need. As you progress, you will figure out what your players want and they will figure out what you are willing to do.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Most of the time you probably won't need to worry about a lot of the things you are concerned with right now. I only detail the areas they are going to be in and even then I don't go into a lot of detail. I don't worry about what's in every barrel or pocket. If they enter a room with dozens of barrels, I just tell them that there are a variety of whatever in them. If they find a small library, I might tell them that there are some books on general farming techniques but nothing of much interest unless there is a particular book that is interesting. You can download random book titles if you really want them but I think it's a waste of time.

I recommend buying the Gamemastery Guide and grabbing a few adventures, even free ones, and see how others do it. You will find that it's much less intensive than you are making it.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Think less "cRPG" and more "movie".

In a cRPG, the player is involved in EVERYTHING. You have to watch the character walk down the road for however long until they get to something interesting.

In a movie, you time-lapse forward until something interesting happens. If a commute somewhere is uneventful, the viewers don't see it happen. Do the same as a GM.


Typically I'd take the scenes as they come, if someone slaps the barmaid, chances are she attacks him back, or the bartender (who is *always* a retired adventurer -yes I'm joking, but it is a pretty common cliche) storms over and kicks them out. Or the bouncer, etc etc.

In most cases NPC react like most people will, so it's not too hard to figure it out. The various racial/cultural things come with time, don't worry about them, or you might find yourself swamped with details your players will never even notice. Or, conversely, end up in a game where they try to talk to *every* NPC to see what their story is, or just to see if you run out of names.

As for narrating a town I usually leave it at: "It's a relatively large town, bustling with common folk on market day. As you pass through the streets, you can hear street performers, merchants and livestock. The smell of spices and sweat mingle on the breeze, and the streets are lined with shops, doors open to the warm spring air."

Or something similar. Barrels and debris will be in alleyways, but empty or rotted, maybe infested with rodents, depending on the city.

If you're looking to have a bit more depth in dungeons you can always just use a random map generator and note features, but in most cases, it's scenery, and if your players are in a dungeon, they're more worried about the monsters jumping them than the small skeletal remains of a squirrel behind the smashed and battered table in the corner, thickly laden with dust.

I'm not saying don't bother, but don't stress too much about it. Be prepared to get asked off the cuff questions for stuff you haven't prepared for, don't worry, if you think it might be relevant, keep a notepad handy and write down what your answer is-maybe with a date?

In short: Breathe. Relax. Noone expects every single detail to be specific, highly narrative and a delight to the psyche. Also, you'd be surprised how much table time that takes.


In addition to the sound advice outlined above I would recommend keeping a handful of lists available to help you flesh out any details you need to develop off the cuff. I keep a number of personal names, tavern and store types/names, heraldry descriptions as well as just odds n ends one might find in an alley or dungeon. These lists fit on a simple sheet of paper an are often all I need to flesh out a random scene. They also help keep me from naming every town guard "bob".....


Thank you for all the considered answers so far. I've taken in and appreciated all of it, even if I don't directly refer to it in this post. I think my problem is definitely coming at it from a cRPG angle because, as some people have noted, in a cRPG it's all concurrent events and when you walk down that empty country lane, you are manually doing that, unlike a movie where you just go from important scene to important scene, and the country lane is usually just implied. I guess my mind is stuck in the idea that you enter a town, and now you can explore every single road, that I'll have to provide a map and the players will say "Well I want to go into that alleyway" and then I'll have to say "Ah, you are, uh... attacked by... angry... rats?" and that could go on potentially forever as they "manually" explore the town, as would be the case in a computer or videogame.

So just to make sure, because as silly as it might seem this is a big stumbling block for me starting out, people are saying that when you go into a town it should, at least in general, be a vague and abstract kind of thing? You say "There's a blacksmith, a priestess, two pubs" and so on, and kind of cut to each of those places as the players decide? And if any NPCs need to say anything (e.g. "My daughter has gone missing!") you basically cut into that scene rather than waiting for anyone to talk to that particularly NPC?


Players are not random effect generators. They will generally go and interact with things that are interesting, and ignore the trivial.

So, have 1-3 interesting things for them to interact with.

And remember, you don't have to make an epic story out of EVERYTHING. If a player asks about the dirt the trail is made of, just tell him "Looks like ordinary dirt to you".

They'll move on to their next idea soon enough.

-------------------------------------------------
Try an adventure someone else wrote first. Then, you only have to fill in the blanks.

And keep in mind, the variety is also what's incredibly awesome about a face to face game. You aren't limited the way you are in computer games to 'the edge of the map". If you haven't, try a few as a player first, and see how others deal with it.

Sovereign Court

Congratulations, you've discovered the best part of what makes an RPG an RPG. :D

For me, the main draw behind dice-rolling, DMed RPGS is that you can basically do anything you want, and the world/npcs will react intelligently and appropriately. Sure, on a larger scale, you're still more-or-less railroaded onto the current adventure path, but within that you have the freedom to INNOVATE, not just strategize.

As the DM, of course, this forces you to stay on your feat. Look into the principles of "Schrodinger's Gun" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SchrodingersGun) - basically, you have the same dungeon prepared, and it shows up in front of the player whether they go north, south, east, or west. You've got to be careful, though, or the players might catch on and force your hand, though most are willing to suspend their suspicion - they know you have limits, too.

Just make sure when preparing an adventure you run through a few of the ways it could go wonky in your head, so you're not caught completely unawares when the party tries to sit down for tea with the main villain. Always have a few plot hooks and deux ex machinas up your sleeve to edge them back to the main path.

Verdant Wheel

It´s more akin to writing a book (only that you have four or five other persons over your shoulder sharing the narrative). Thing have the importance you want to give them, and no one have a right answer.


Tropxe wrote:

So just to make sure, because as silly as it might seem this is a big stumbling block for me starting out, people are saying that when you go into a town it should, at least in general, be a vague and abstract kind of thing? You say "There's a blacksmith, a priestess, two pubs" and so on, and kind of cut to each of those places as the players decide? And if any NPCs need to say anything (e.g. "My daughter has gone missing!") you basically cut into that scene rather than waiting for anyone to talk to that particularly NPC?

When the PCs go into town, describe what they see, hear, smell, and feel. Then let them decide what they want to do. You can put several things out there for them to notice and interact with in detail if you like. For example:

"As you enter town, you notice that the streets seem unusually empty. No one is in sight as you walk down the street. Toward the center of town you can hear people, what sounds like quite a large crowd, and they aren't happy about something."

You don't need to tell them there are shopkeepers until they ask if there are any or happen to meet them. Same with other kinds of people.

As GM, you're going to verbally describe what the PCs see/hear/taste/smell/feel (physically) and then let them decide how to respond. The party might never talk to the NPCs who know about the missing children; just as in real life I might not learn about such a thing if I don't read the paper/watch the news/listen to the radio. But your party might pick up on that cue when they ask what's going on in when they find the crowd in the town's square.


rkraus2 makes a good point - take a look at a published adventure before you make your own. Even if you don't end up actually running it, it will give you a good idea of what things you will absolutely want to make sure you have planned.

Another helpful tip: players typically gravitate towards investigating anything that you describe in more detail or that you mention last. Use this to help lead them to the places where the action is.

Visual aids are great, but you don't need to overwhelm yourself with them. There are tons of places on the web to grab generic town maps if you want to have them.

In the end, if you have to make up details just jot them down so you can use them again later. If the world has just enough consistency, most players won't notice when you accidentally change something.


Another thought: you might want to check out "tabletop adventures" line of PDFs they have a bunch of little vignettes for caves, cities, forests etc which can be dropped into any adventure to help add depth without requiring bunch of prep


Tropxe wrote:

-*cut for space but appreciated nonetheless*-

So just to make sure, because as silly as it might seem this is a big stumbling block for me starting out, people are saying that when you go into a town it should, at least in general, be a vague and abstract kind of thing? You say "There's a blacksmith, a priestess, two pubs" and so on, and kind of cut to each of those places as the players decide? And if any NPCs need to say anything (e.g. "My daughter has gone missing!") you basically cut into that scene rather than waiting for anyone to talk to that particularly NPC?

Yes/No.

Yes on the vague and develop as needed, No on the sudden cutscenes.

Not all of the social encounters should work the same. Like most people, some will walk right up, some will shout, some will wait to be approached and some need to be cajoled/persuaded/intimidated/etc.

Have your NPCs react like people and you'll be fine.

I usually have a few personality types I rely on if I get stuck, like the "gruff blacksmith" and "earthy tavern wench" and "sly performer" etc etc to give me a head start and just let the interactions shape the personality further.

Sort of like setting the scene, start general and get as specific as is needed.

As was pointed out, if you want something to draw attention, you can always focus more on that particular object/person as well. Think of it like outlining a quest object, only in this case, you're outlining it by adding a more interesting description. Or flavoring the bait. However you prefer to look at it :)

Edit: Ugh grammar (sorry-should be fixed-mostly)


Dot for further interest.


if you have the time, id recommend listening to some actual play podcasts.
i have picked up alot of good ideas on how to run things by listening to more experienced people play.

im new myself, the campaign im running is the first time ive ever played, my players are mostly family and have played 1e and 2nd d&d. this campaign is basically a tutorial where we figure stuff out together. i try to introduce a new mechanic each session to avoid overwhelming them.

here is a site that hosts a ton of different podcasts also 3.5privatesanctuary is some of the best ive listened to, that one is not an actual play, but still great

*edit* almost forgot, this is a livestream and the guy plays over skype adn maptools with some of the friends of the stream, its 4e but whatever Lordkat.com nsfw id say but come watch the insanity


Tropxe wrote:
So just to make sure, because as silly as it might seem this is a big stumbling block for me starting out, people are saying that when you go into a town it should, at least in general, be a vague and abstract kind of thing? You say "There's a blacksmith, a priestess, two pubs" and so on, and kind of cut to each of those places as the players decide? And if any NPCs need to say anything (e.g. "My daughter has gone missing!") you basically cut into that scene rather than waiting for anyone to talk to that particularly NPC?

Try this: describe the city/town you live in in a short paragraph, maybe 3-5 sentences.

You'll find that you only need a few sentences to describe cities, nations, rooms, people, etc. The more you do it, the better you'll get at it. I generally try to cover sight, sound, and smell with my descriptions. Sometimes I'll add tactile and taste. Tactile isn't used often, usually it's for temperature or maybe a slight charge in the air. Taste is for strong smells. Imagine a heavy smoker nearby. You can taste the smoke on him.

I don't usually describe NPCs or locations until it's time. I probably have a list of names and places I expect them to go, but I don't describe anything that I don't need to. If the party never wants to see the blacksmith, it probably doesn't matter if he's a scrawny half-elf with little burn marks on his skin.

I do try to have a hook to get the party where I need them to be. I generally avoid the bar scene for initial adventure hooks, but the party will probably end up there at some point so I like to have rumors ready. Some are true, some are not. There are different levels of "true" also. Some of the rumors might lead to more hooks. Some might advance the adventure.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Tropxe wrote:

Thank you for all the considered answers so far. I've taken in and appreciated all of it, even if I don't directly refer to it in this post. I think my problem is definitely coming at it from a cRPG angle because, as some people have noted, in a cRPG it's all concurrent events and when you walk down that empty country lane, you are manually doing that, unlike a movie where you just go from important scene to important scene, and the country lane is usually just implied. I guess my mind is stuck in the idea that you enter a town, and now you can explore every single road, that I'll have to provide a map and the players will say "Well I want to go into that alleyway" and then I'll have to say "Ah, you are, uh... attacked by... angry... rats?" and that could go on potentially forever as they "manually" explore the town, as would be the case in a computer or videogame.

So just to make sure, because as silly as it might seem this is a big stumbling block for me starting out, people are saying that when you go into a town it should, at least in general, be a vague and abstract kind of thing? You say "There's a blacksmith, a priestess, two pubs" and so on, and kind of cut to each of those places as the players decide? And if any NPCs need to say anything (e.g. "My daughter has gone missing!") you basically cut into that scene rather than waiting for anyone to talk to that particularly NPC?

I'm going to back up a little and note there are two broad ways to approach GMing an adventure:

1. Write the adventure yourself

2. Use a module/adventure path. If you have the beginner's box, you've probably looked at the modules in that. If you don't have access to those, there's a few free modules available here as .pdfs... "Master of the Fallen Fortress" and "We Be Goblins" for two.

Modules have the advantage of a lot of details written up for you already--it's basically a script treatment for an adventure. There's a general plot and a goal for the PCs to be attracted to. Enemies are provided, traps, hazards.... and you are also given background of the area so that HOPEFULLY (if the players try something unexpected, and the module is well-written) you can improvise what might happen next based on the material you're handed.

In the case of using modules, you don't have to worry about coming up with a lot of stuff because it's pre-written for you. You can look at the map of the town (or whatever setting) in the module and see what's there, not feel like you must invent every creature there already. (Of course, if a PC says they want to go down an alley and you decide they should fight some rats, you can always do that, even if it's not scripted in the module--or not, it's up to you.)

Even if running a game with a module doesn't appeal to you, it might be worth reading through a few to get a sense how adventures are constructed.

Now, modules are still not video games. PCs CAN decide to do things that the module hasn't taken into account. That is where improvisation has to come in. You can try to find a way to put them back on track, or roll with it. As a new GM especially, it IS okay to say, "Guys, you've really stumped me here, I've got nothing that covers this, would you humor me and try X instead?" That's not something you always want to do and PCs don't like to feel railroaded, but players should be sensitive to the fact that indeed GMs are NOT emotionless AIs existing only to entertain them, and you as GM should feel comfortable to ask for some leeway while you're learning. Even as a relatively experienced GM, I've asked my players to give me a few minutes to come up with stuff when they've really thrown me for a loop.

NOW if you're writing your own adventure from scratch -- well, the trick is indeed to write down some notes ahead of time. You're not usually running a game completely off the top of your head, usually you've taken some time to figure out what the general gist of your adventure is, so you're not just running "cold" when the players show up--you have a sense of what's going to happen and who's there already.

Different GMs prep for games differently--it's all a matter for what works for you. Some write very linear stories that are almost CRPG like in the way the GM expect players to follow them; others write very loose "sandbox" settings where they have a developed world and just react to the players as the players decide what they want to do, and somewhere in between.

I write most of my own adventures when I run, and what I do is this:

1. Determine the Adventure hook: What's going on that is going to attract the PC's attention?

Example: The PCs are citizens of the village of Littleton. Recently several of Littleton's children have gone missing, and volunteers are being asked to find what's happened to them.

2. Who's the Villain? What do they want?

Example: The villain is an evil witch who is baking the children into gingerbread cookies. These are magic cookies that when she eats them, it will grant her youth/beauty/ultimate cosmic power/it will transform her into a demon queen/she just really likes child-flavored-gingerbread.

3. Where does the game take place?

Example: The town of Littleton and the nearby Dark Forest. Later on, I'll make up a rough map of these two areas, just to get a sense of place and figure out where things can happen.

4. How will the adventurers find out about the witch and track her down?

Example: Then I start brainstorming how they might find information. A good rule of thumb is always have a minimum of three ways you've thought up beforehand that they can get pulled into the plot. For this I might have them run into a few townsfolk that can give them clues, and also have one or two trails they can find easily in the woods.

From there, it's about fleshing out the important stuff
- A little bit about the town itself, so the players have a sense of place. Write up briefly a few important NPCs, including its mayor, a healer, a gossipmonger (bartenders are good for this) and a constable. Determine what kind of shops are in the town and what kind of items are available (broadly).
- Draw a ROUGH map of the town and forest
- Write up the evil witch and any servants
- Think about what hazards the party might encounter on their search before they find a witch. I use the setting I've made up to help me--since it's a forest, maybe there's wicked fairies, or dangerous hungry wolves. I just pull some stats out of the Bestiary for those. I think about non monster hazards too--bad weather, booby traps, etc. and just the threat of getting lost and how the party might handle that.

From there I should be good to go. When I begin the game, I explain the situation about the children (I've probably worked with the players beforehand and let them know they're from a close knit town and know each other already). If they don't feel like there's enough incentive to find the children, I might have an NPC offer a reward or something. The PCs probably won't wander too aimlessly, as they've been given some purpose. They may not do everything I expect, but hopefully if I've developed the background of the setting enough, I should be able to improvise what I have not prepared (and honestly, often the most fun stuff comes from improvisation--as long as you have some background to work with, you can make up some neat things on the fly).

And so on. GMing IS some work and you do need to prep things--but for me it's more about having an outline--the PCs given JUST enough will develop quite a lot of the story on their own as they play. Some folks will do stuff way more in depth than I do, some do only the vaguest of outlines and wing it. But usually you go in with SOME plan.

Hope I hit some of what you were concerned about, but either way good luck and happy gaming.

PS: The GameMastery Guide has some good advice for designing adventures and talking about GMing and what it means to GM. The parts of it in the PRD are minimal, it might be worth checking out at least the $10 pdf (or borrowing a copy from a friend if you don't have 10 bucks) and seeing what it has to say on the subject.


Draco Bahamut wrote:
It´s more akin to writing a book (only that you have four or five other persons over your shoulder sharing the narrative). Thing have the importance you want to give them, and no one have a right answer.

This. The dice exist to shake things up and force you and the players to suddenly improvise and react to a plot twist (or sword in the gut) that was not expected, but then you keep telling the story (Reginald heals Thog. Thog gets back into the slimy green thing's face-like appendage) and see how the chapter ends.


Don’t make everything ahead of time. I usually just have one session planed for at a time. They always do things you don’t expect but it’s usually small. They let the goblin live or they sold the horse, small stuff that doesn’t do much right now but can impact things a few games later. The Goblin decides to emulate the paladin that saved him and comes back as a holy warrior to help them out, and the horse in enraged at being sold plots revenge.
It’s a good idea to make up a few stat sheets (or just one) for NPCs. They are the bar wenches, farmers, and towns people. You don’t need to make a sheet on every last person the PCs meet but if they pick a fight with the bar wench you can quickly know her stats. If any NPC becomes important enough for the party to know their name I stat them up special. A few blacksmiths have sprouted fighter levels.
Save everything. Half formed ideas can save your tushy when things go off the rails. I have some old dungeons I made but didn’t get to use in a folder, and I keep all my old Characters to pull out when I need an enemy or ally quickly. If you don’t have any old Characters make some it will help you learn the rules.
The main thing I would say is just keep things going. When you are at a loss for what to do you can have a child run up and ask them if they are adventurers. Then beg for help getting his sister to leave him alone, or get the cat out of a tree. It buys time and they are occupied while you think. One time I made an earth quake. The players leapt into hero mode.
Listen to your players they usually give great idea just by talking to each other. I have changed a few plots because I liked what the players thought was going on better than what I had planned.
I recommend getting as firm a grasp as you can on the rules. When you are winging it it’s better to keep things going with half remembered stats and guessing, than stopping to figure it out. I tell my players that if they catch me getting a rule wrong they can let me know after the game and I will give them 100xp. The only time I let the in game action stop to look stuff up is when it would kill a player or something of similar important.

Story Time:
I have a friend who has been working on a campaign for years. She won’t let anyone play it until it’s done. She talked to me about it once and she was trying to plan for every contingency. She was creating enemies and villains that we wouldn’t meet until the end of the campaign. She was trying to create encounters that would yield just the right amount of exp so we would level but not enough to over level for her plot. No one has ever played that champagne and I think she has burnt out and restarted a few times on it.

I set up an urban dungeon. It was going to be a big save the day moment for my players. I had them going against an assassins guild and every victory they had won so far they had only half won. The assassins had managed to achieve some goal and forward their plot. This time the PCs were going to race the assassins through this mad alchemist home and for the first time truly foil the evil plot. I spent two weeks on the dungeon. When game day came the adventurers decided it was too dangerous. They paid a street kid to carry a letter to the town guard. To let the town guard know what the assassins were up to. So they could handle it. My players then went off to do nothing in particular. I had nothing planned other than the dungeon. This letter thing happened in the first five minutes of the game I had nothing in my holster. And I was in shock that they SENT A LETTER! We ended up traveling to the elemental plane of water that day and exploring the glass city. The whole time I had no idea what was going to happen next. After the game I was able to string some plot back in to the world and we got back in the swing of things. But I still have this dungeon… sitting here... unloved and alone…


HermitIX wrote:

Don’t make everything ahead of time.

*snipped the rest*

YES.

My first campaign I wrote two hundred and fifty (yeah you read that right) pages of background info, maps, NPCs, dialogue, mysterious clues, all to be kicked off by the players being asked to find a mage who was "lost" inside their own tower (dimensional stuff).

I started the party off at a party, a bunch of kids who had just "come of age", and that night, fistfight with the local bully broke out and he was killed. By the PC monk.

The party left the town and never even saw the outside of the tower, let alone *any* of the prep I had spent weeks on.

*facepalm*


I recommend occasionally asking the players to chip in on non essential details like npc race or name. Sure you will get a few Bobs to start with but it immediately gets the players interest. I considered starting a one shot game where the players had to build their own game world and pantheon before they could play in it. We had a list of government types, races and nationalities ready to go (this is a lawful neutral halfelf town in Roman style, this is an oriental human dictatorship), etc, so the players have ultimate buy in.


Alyn Fontaine wrote:
I recommend occasionally asking the players to chip in on non essential details like npc race or name. Sure you will get a few Bobs to start with but it immediately gets the players interest. I considered starting a one shot game where the players had to build their own game world and pantheon before they could play in it. We had a list of government types, races and nationalities ready to go (this is a lawful neutral halfelf town in Roman style, this is an oriental human dictatorship), etc, so the players have ultimate buy in.

That reminds me of a 2nd Edition game I was running. There was this halfling NPC that wasn't really supposed to be much of anything. I didn't even give him a name. He was just a random encounter, hunting in the same woods as the party. They thought he was working for the enemy as a scout and started to interrogate him. When they asked for his name, I didn't know what to say so I said "Phil." One of the players then told him that if he didn't talk, they were going to play "Phil the halfling and other fun party games." I don't remember where it went from there but I will always remember that line.


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The most important thing I can stress is that you, as the GM, are no less a player than the rest of your group. You're in it to have fun too and you're not beholden to entertain your players at the expense of your own enjoyment. So don't stress out about it too much. You're all working together so everyone can have a good time.

And in that spirit, a suggestion: My own regular GM is pretty great but he can sometimes have a tendency to gloss over the details of certain things or needs prompting to really lay out a scene. So one thing that happens in my group that I think really enhances everyone's experience is that a couple of us will make up little details of our own that our characters observe. Nothing major. We'll invent a name for the apothecary's shop if one isn't mentioned or give an otherwise unremarkable NPC a distinguishing characteristic.

It's nice when not all of the exposition comes straight from the GM alone. It lightens his workload a little and it lets the players really own the experience. So maybe talk with your players and invite them to inject a little of their own imagination into the world.


Wow, thanks for all the great advice. I would have responded sooner but on Friday night I went out to the pub and played my first game of Pathfinder after that, and on Saturday night I went to see a musical with my parents (it was pretty cool, but that's another story...)

I found it easier than I expected to GM. Improvising and creating fun little non-standard events came more naturally than I expected, though it was only a 1-on-1 session which I found put a lot more pressure on me to nudge my friend into doing things. I'd often describe a room only for him to go "Hm" and say nothing else. "So what would you like to do?" I would say, trying to avoid explicitly saying "Like maybe SEARCH FOR TRAPS or something?" and he'd seem... well how do I put it? Kind of like he didn't get the possibilities. He made out like RPing is something he's done before online with American friends, but seeing him play the other day it seemed more like he was expecting something like Hero Quest.

He did warm up as it went on and some nice moments happened spontaneously, but it took all my effort to not say "You know you can search the room? You know you can ask for more details, right? Arrghhh!" Like in the first room of the premade beginner dungeon, there are two straw mats and a locked chest. He didn't show any interest in the mats, and when I told him the chest was locked he was like "Hm," long pause "Can I bash it open?" and I tried to be subtle and say "Yeah... and of course you can look around the room and any other action you like..." and he just said "I'll bash it open then". More people would definitely be good but sadly no one else I know would even be remotely interested in RPGs (not even videogame ones, let alone PnP).


One thing that I have found with a lot of newer players is that they are often overwhelmed with options. Something you may want to do is give him a short list of options for a while. Something like this:

Quote:

You enter a large chamber, probably 50 feet on each of its four sides with a ceiling at least 30 feet high. The soft light appears to be coming from phosphorescent moss covering the walls. It smell musty in here and you can hear the slight dripping of water in the distance. It's colder in here than the other rooms, but just enough to be noticeable. There are several dead bodies of troglodytes in the middle of the room. You can see an exit on the other side of the chamber. What do you want to do?

Do you want to inspect the moss?
Do you want to inspect the bodies?
Do you want to loot the bodies?
Do you want to investigate the source of the water?
Do you want to search the room for traps or secret doors?
Do you want to continue on?

The more you GM for him, the more he will know what to do. You may just need to give him a push for a bit.

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