Feral Combat Training Question


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So I'm working on an Unarmed Fighter build with the Half-Orc Toothy trait for a bite attack and a 2 level dip in Natural Weapon Ranger to get two claw attacks. He'll be taking Boar Style and Feral Combat Training (Claws). At lower levels he'll be doing claw claw bite for his full round attacks and at higher levels (maybe not until level 11) he'll start using his unarmed strike with claw claw bite as secondary attacks, maybe taking the Multiattack feat eventually. I'm assuming he'll still be able to make all of his natural attacks since he could be using kicks for his unarmed strikes, right?

Anyway, that's not my main question. I was wondering about Feral Combat Training, will his claws receive the benefits of all feats which affect his unarmed strike? For instance, if he took Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike) and Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike), will his claw attacks also receive +2 to damage and 19-20 crit range?

"Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike."

By my reading, it seems like it would work. Or am I missing something? Looks like a nice deal if it does work this way. Just too bad it doesn't say you can take it multiple times for different natural weapons or I'd have him take it for his bite, too. Thoughts?

Sovereign Court

my understanding is that natural attacks need their own Weapon Focus, Spec, and Improve critical feats to modify them, and can't piggyback on Feral Combat.

punch w/ a clawed hand is not the same as a claw attack.


I would be inclined to say it works. What other meaning could you reasonably attribute to the bolded section above? I'm hard pressed to find too many effects that specifically augment an unarmed strike, other than weapon focus/specialization: unarmed strike. The monk's improved unarmed damage is the only other one that comes to mind.


I think your main thing would work, but I don't think you could use kicks as unarmed strikes, the language that specifically allows it is part of the monk class, not anything that describes unarmed strikes in general. The monk also says a monk's unarmed strikes are never considered off-handed, which makes me think a fighter's can be and also that they require hands.

Grand Lodge

The feats would affect the chosen natural weapon. If you take dragon style, you will get 1.5 strength on your first claw attack.


Take Boat wrote:
I think your main thing would work, but I don't think you could use kicks as unarmed strikes, the language that specifically allows it is part of the monk class, not anything that describes unarmed strikes in general. The monk also says a monk's unarmed strikes are never considered off-handed, which makes me think a fighter's can be and also that they require hands.

Nowhere does it say that an unarmed strike is with the hands. He can take his unarmed strikes (kicks) as his iterative attacks, and then tack his natural weapons on as secondary attacks with a -5 penalty. I'm pretty sure this works.


Take Boat wrote:
I think your main thing would work, but I don't think you could use kicks as unarmed strikes, the language that specifically allows it is part of the monk class, not anything that describes unarmed strikes in general. The monk also says a monk's unarmed strikes are never considered off-handed, which makes me think a fighter's can be and also that they require hands.

Actually....

Core Rule Book, Combat Section:
Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:

Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.

An unarmed character can't take attacks of opportunity (but see “Armed” Unarmed Attacks, below).

“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).

Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity).

Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character's unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of bludgeoning damage, while a Large character's unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).

Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.


I also believe it works as you would hope, i.e. all feats affecting IUS affect the selected natural weapon. I've considered doing this with a Brawler archetype to take advantage of the awesome +1 attack/+3 damage the Brawler gets to US at level 3.

Silver Crusade

That's how I read it too and built my monk/white-haired witch along those lines. Feral Combat Training+Monastic Legacy = a monk 3/white-haired witch 10 that can do 1d10 damage with his hair should he choose to get involved in melee combat (he doesn't, but the option is there).

Sovereign Court

i stand corrected.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Feral Combat Training Question All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions