Kensei / Ninja: Viable Yay or Nay?

[thalion]

I've never played Pathfinder before but a couple of friends of mine are starting a campaign at level 3.

I was planning on playing an elf ninja but got the idea of going ninja/kensei with the emphasis on the former.

I'm not looking for optimal. I'm just looking to see if the concept is viable.

It's as much for flavor as anything else.

[ShadowcatX]

The concept's perfectly viable, every concept is viable. It is terribly unoptimal and may face difficulties dealing with level appropriate encounters.

[Blue Star]

I don't see why it wouldn't be, though you might have problems hitting things.

[submit2me]

Yeah. This build is viable. As ShadowcatX was saying, it really isn't optimal. Adding Magus to a Ninja build adds one more stat that you need to worry about. It turns it into a MAD (multiple ability dependency) build. Unless you have moderate to high scores in most of your stats, you'll probably end up disappointed in what your character can do.

Even if it's just for flavor, I don't think it will add much without being able to optimize it. If you decide to do it anyway, I suggest half-elf instead of elf. You can choose two favored classes and not miss out on any extra hit points or skill points.

[thalion]

Ah, I see what everyone is saying.

Back to the drawing board.

[Jam412]

If your friend is GMing, ask if you can use charisma as your casting stat for Magus. Shouldn't cause any balance problems.

[Hayato Ken]

You could also try to avoid spells and other stuff with saves, get some self buffs and some debuffs for your enemy. Ninjas have "pressure points" talent to debuff STR or DEX. Add some debuffing magus stuff. Nice synergy.

Also wanst there some spells that let you count as flanking somehow?

[ShadowcatX]

Thalion, I wouldn't toss away a concept because the mechanics don't work. If you can give us the concept without discussing mechanics (why did you want to be both a ninja and a magus) I greatly suspect we can help you make the concept work mechanically, at least enough that you won't feel useless.

[thalion]

Thanks ShadowcatX,

As Hayato Ken was saying, I figured I would just go into Kensai enough to get some buffing spells. There's already two front line fighters so I don't plan on being in melee combat all the time.

I was thinking of going with a ninja with limited spell use but I figure that multiclassing with a full spell casting class would make my ability to hit anything really bad.

My mistake was thinking that the Magus was a full BAB class (I'm new and not really familiar with everything yet) but with it being a 3/4 class, I can see why people are saying that I would have a hard time hitting things.

I wasn't planning on going deep into kensai (magus) and definitely not for offensive stuff. I was looking for utility and buffing things and I figure I could use the arcane pool to add int to attack rolls.

[truesidekick]

woah, woah, woah! who said this concept wouldnt work.

the way i see it, you could take marmarch, or what ever its called... the ranged version of the magus.

go 4 magus,4ninja,4 magus,4ninja you would get magus 12/ninja 8.

ninja would net you invisibility, magus would net you shocking grasp + sneak attack. and with the metamagic feat... damn forgot that one as well would let you cast shocking grasp at +5 levels over max making your sneak attacks deal 6d6 (shocking grasp)and 2d6 sneak attack.
at level 8. is it super op no, but a ninja poping out of invisibilty hitting you for that much on a mobile attack is pretty awesome.

oh and then they have sap master which if i remember could knock up your total damage to something like 4d6+4 (non lethal) then 6d6 shocking grasp, with a +3 to attack vs metal armor.

* i forgot that kensai get wakazashi profeciency, that would make the kensai a great choice over all because of imrpoved crit. that would make your characters go nutz on a full attack action.

[Hayato Ken]

Can you combine a non-lethal sneak attack with shocking grasp?
Would be interesting.

[thalion]

Truesidekick, forgive the newbie question but why would having wakizashi proficiency make the kensai a great choice? Is it simply because the kensai would have access to improved crit?

[truesidekick]

thalion wrote:

Truesidekick, forgive the newbie question but why would having wakizashi proficiency make the kensai a great choice? Is it simply because the kensai would have access to improved crit?

a wakazashi is a light weapon making if a weapon finesse choice. taking weapon finesse at level 1 would make his kensai able to take a 10 strength and still be able to hit regularly, i thought they had katana only. that way he wouldnt have to do some wierd build like 1 ninja/1 magus/3 ninja/3 magus so he would have the proper proficiencies.

and yes you can do (physical) nonlethal with (lethal) spell damage.

i think i would do something like this for my first 6 levels
1-4magus 5-6 ninja

you would have the same bab as a solid kensai/ninja would have acess to ki pool invisibility (swift) and spell strike + shocking grasp making low levels awesome. if you take this character to 15+ you wont be as great, but most games dont.

feats (elf)
1 weapon finesse
3 feat that increases caster level +2 from UM, cant think of it.
5 Intensified Spell

at 6th level your Shocking grasp will hit for 6d6 and your sneak will be 2d6 then you can go into the sap mastery feats to gain as much d6 off that as you can. by 12th level you should be able to knock people around for about 14d6 in one standard.

like i said not great, but its more then enough to make you happy.

[thalion]

How would you make his stats, assuming a 20 point buy?

Your thoughs are appreciated greatly but I was hoping to go more ninja than kensai whereas you propose going more magus than ninja.

Will it work okay going the other way?