RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I'm running two rival groups in the same campaign, and things that one group does will affect the other group and vice versa.
One group likes to stick it to Cheliax every chance they get. While passing through (sailing for their lives) the Arch of Aroden, they managed to infect a Corentyn rat with the Bubonic Plague (DC 17 Fort).
That's a pretty substantial DC for the majority of the population! Anywhere from an 50-80% chance of contracting the disease for the average commoner and low level PC class. A 5th level Cleric or 6th level Paladin could remove it, but they need to make a caster level check, with less than a 50% chance of success.
What do you think would be the effects/repercussions of such an infection? Corentyn is a *major* port; all traffic in or out of the Inner Sea must stop and pay the tariff, which means there's a good possibility of spreading to major ports throughout Golarion. How fast will it spread to different ports?
Will Chelish ships/sailors be blacklisted? Rahadoum grow bold and attempt to take Kharijite back? Asmodeous-sponsored quarantine and 'cleansing' of the infected?
Just trying to brainstorm ideas, any input is highly valued! ^_^
I remember reading a sci-fi book where one of the characters was given the task of researching if the historical bubonic plague outbreak on earth could have been deliberately caused with the technology of the time. The answer was no, but we're dealing with magic here, so "a wizard did it" always works.
The problem with diseases that are too deadly is that unless there is a long symptomless incubation/contageous period, the carriers get too sick to spread the disease far before they die. If your players had to be sure the rat they're messing with actually got the plague before they released it, it might not get far before it just curls up and dies.
If the word gets out that such and such a port has an outbreak of plague, no ship will voluntarily go there. If there are rumors of plague in so and so port, ships that had made a call there may be refused entry into any other port until they sit for a good while in quarantine out beyond the harbor at anchor.
EDIT: There's a board game from BTRC called Black Death that illustrates the virulence/mortality relation well.
The problem with diseases that are too deadly is that unless there is a long symptomless incubation/contageous period, the carriers get too sick to spread the disease far before they die. If your players had to be sure the rat they're messing with actually got the plague before they released it, it might not get far before it just curls up and dies.If the word gets out that such and such a port has an outbreak of plague, no ship will voluntarily go there. If there are rumors of plague in so and so port, ships that had made a call there may be refused entry into any other port until they sit for a good while in quarantine out beyond the harbor at anchor.
If they were able to inject the infected rat into the city, even if it died, the fleas could still jump ship onto the next critters that come to investigate the body. One rat is no guarantee, but it's probably not impossible.
If they're successful, the incubation time is 2–6 days, assuming it functions like in the real world. And then add to that the time before anyone notices there's an outbreak (when someone sufficiently important enough to gain official notice gets sick/dies, or the bodies start to pile up very obviously), during which time vermin and the infected but symptomless can spread the disease. Ships couldn't get terribly far before it would become obvious that there was plague onboard—but Corentyn is only about 5 days from Westcrown by sailing ship, and Manaket is even closer, so they'd be vulnerable, and the disease might leapfrog from there.
Of course, the availability of magical healing, instantaneous magical communication between cities, and the ability to force people to tell the truth about where they'd traveled from would make containment much easier than in the real medieval world. (And now I want to play Pandemic again...)
One thing I notice is absent from the disease rules as written is any sort of immunity for already having had and recovered from a particular disease.
Let's assume an all 10s first level commoner giving them 6 hit points.
Game rules are onset 1 day (not the 2-6 days reported above, but are we really expecting realistic diseases in Pathfinder ?).
DC17 fort save after exposure with a base of +0, so only a 17,18,19, or 20 saves, a 20% chance. Frequency is 1/day, so 24 hours after failing the exposure check, make another save or take the 1d4 con damage.
Even if they roll 4 points of con damage, they'd lose 2 hit points and survive the day. The average would be 2.5 con damage. If they realize what's going on, and get straight to bed (complete bed rest), they'd recover 2 hp and 2 con damage. So the question becomes will they make two consecutive saves before the average of 0.5 con damage over what they can recover reduces the patient's con to 0.
Even better if they seek help. Assume that help is an all 10s first level expert who has chosen Heal as a class skill and put one rank in Heal for a total skill of +4. This expert puts them on bed-rest and attempts to treat disease as well as provide long-term care. The expert needs to roll a 13 to meet or beat the DC17 check (a 40 % chance). If the expert succeeds, the patient gets a +4 circumstance bonus, but may have already taken con damage, reducing the save. With complete bed rest AND long term care, if the expert rolls an 11 or better, the patient will recover 4 hp and 4 points of ability damage.
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Bear in mind magical healing. By my rough calculations, around 1 in 200 people in Golarion are capable of casting Remove Disease somehow, and most of them can do it at least 2 or 3 times a day...which is not enough to curtail an infection completely, but sure helps.
Also, apparently the Curse of the Crimson Throne Adventure Path's second volume is a plague-centered adventure, and involves a discussion of these issues. Just FYI.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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@Judy- You are right that plague in Golarion is much less serious because of magic. I was more interested in the political repercussions...
For instance, a Kelish ship leaves Absolom headed for Korvosa. It docks in Corentyn to pay the Inner Sea Exit Tariff (or grease some Chelish palms) and one or more of the crew contracts plague. It continues into the Arcadian Ocean, and 4 days later, people start dying. Who's going to let them dock/recover? Even if they get to Korvosa, they'll be turned away unless they've somehow arranged for an Abadaran priest to minister to them while in quarantine.
@Slimgauge- From the rules on afflictions: "Hit point and ability score damage caused by an affliction cannot be healed naturally while the affliction persists." Its quite a bit more serious than you present, with mortality occurring around 5 days for nearly three quarters of the population, at least without magical healing, and nearly 50% with access to a skilled healer.
@Deadmanwalking- Really? 1 in 200? That seems a little high to me. Just checked named NPCs in Sandpoint against the population of 1,240, and the highest of them are one level away from prepare Remove Disease.
...I guess you mean casting from a scroll, staff, or wand? 4/1240= 1 in 300ish... Ok, they'll need to make caster level checks for the scrolls, and even then the wands and scrolls only have a 40% chance of successfully curing someone.
@Cpt_kirstov and Deadmanwalking- I'll be sure to check that out, thanks for the tip! ^_^
Thanks for your input everyone, keep it coming! ^_^
I thought there was something to that effect, but didn't find it. Thanks for correcting me. I don't have the Curse of the Crimson Throne, but I suspect there's good stuff there.
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@Deadmanwalking- Really? 1 in 200? That seems a little high to me. Just checked named NPCs in Sandpoint against the population of 1,240, and the highest of them are one level away from prepare Remove Disease.
...I guess you mean casting from a scroll, staff, or wand? 4/1240= 1 in 300ish... Ok, they'll need to make caster level checks for the scrolls, and even then the wands and scrolls only have a 40% chance of successfully curing someone.
Technically true, but only because the highest level spellcaster in town is a Mystic Theurge. :)
I did a thread on demographics based on the GMG's spell availability by community size chart. It actually matches up with Sandpoint quite well.
It predicts 1 in 80 people at 5th level plus in a PC class, I was assuming less than half that being a Divine spellcaster (or Alchemist or Paladin, or someone capable of summoning a being with Remove Disease), but thinking about it, they need to be a Single Classed Divine spellcasters at the lowest levels there, so I may've overstated things...but it's probably still gonna be 1 in 300 or 400 people on average, and quite possibly more than that in a bigger city (where the high level characters tend to congregate).
@Cpt_kirstov and Deadmanwalking- I'll be sure to check that out, thanks for the tip! ^_^
Thanks for your input everyone, keep it coming! ^_^
No problem, hapy to help. :)
I remember reading a sci-fi book where one of the characters was given the task of researching if the historical bubonic plague outbreak on earth could have been deliberately caused with the technology of the time. The answer was no, but we're dealing with magic here, so "a wizard did it" always works.
The problem with diseases that are too deadly is that unless there is a long symptomless incubation/contageous period, the carriers get too sick to spread the disease far before they die. If your players had to be sure the rat they're messing with actually got the plague before they released it, it might not get far before it just curls up and dies.
If the word gets out that such and such a port has an outbreak of plague, no ship will voluntarily go there. If there are rumors of plague in so and so port, ships that had made a call there may be refused entry into any other port until they sit for a good while in quarantine out beyond the harbor at anchor.
EDIT: There's a board game from BTRC called Black Death that illustrates the virulence/mortality relation well.
I think that was the book "Friday" By Robert A Heinlen.
It would be an intersting role playing oppurtunity.
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I'm running two rival groups in the same campaign, and things that one group does will affect the other group and vice versa.
One group likes to stick it to Cheliax every chance they get. While passing through (sailing for their lives) the Arch of Aroden, they managed to infect a Corentyn rat with the Bubonic Plague (DC 17 Fort).
That's a pretty substantial DC for the majority of the population! Anywhere from an 50-80% chance of contracting the disease for the average commoner and low level PC class. A 5th level Cleric or 6th level Paladin could remove it, but they need to make a caster level check, with less than a 50% chance of success.
What do you think would be the effects/repercussions of such an infection? Corentyn is a *major* port; all traffic in or out of the Inner Sea must stop and pay the tariff, which means there's a good possibility of spreading to major ports throughout Golarion. How fast will it spread to different ports?
Will Chelish ships/sailors be blacklisted? Rahadoum grow bold and attempt to take Kharijite back? Asmodeous-sponsored quarantine and 'cleansing' of the infected?Just trying to brainstorm ideas, any input is highly valued! ^_^
Well, that there's an interesting dynamic. The original bubonic plaque spread, firstly, not directly by rats but rather by parasitic flees that the rats carried. The spread of the disease was fast and horrible, and did in fact have far reaching consequences....HOWEVER! The main reason it went so wildly out of control was because of a lack of understanding as to how these things worked at the time. Due to Golarion being high in magic firstly, and a little bit higher on the technological scale than Earth circa 15th century, it could be feasible to wipe out the disease more quickly, such as by creating alchemical solutions such as antiplague or somesuch, or having more potent clerics go down among the weakened and cast away the disease. Quarantines would actually be very good.
This being Cheliax, though, they might also just kill whoever has the disease with unholy fire...just sayin'
And with so many diviners around, there won't be as much of the "This is a punishment from god" going around. High enough level clerics can simply "commune" and get the straight scoop.
Don't be so sure ... there's an excellent article on plague in Pathfinder #8 (CoCT: Seven Days to the Grave) which even though it's technically 3.5e does a great job of covering the subject.
In this case it's a couple of PCs looking to cause trouble. Did they take any precautions against being found out by magic means ?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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In this case it's a couple of PCs looking to cause trouble. Did they take any precautions against being found out by magic means ?
None. >:)
In fact, by this point they're quite well known to the Chelaxian (specifically Asmodean) hierarchy. They've been allowed to escape retribution because they were deemed useful (in the grand, metaplot scheme), but that is quickly changing!A warning is coming, and if they don't take it to heart, the might of the Hellknights will be loosed upon them! ^_^