I'm dubious about the balance of astral constructs


Product Discussion


So, I'm looking at the Astral Construct power and I can't see how this is balanced.

Eyeballing it, astral constructs are about as combat-strong as the corresponding Summon Monster spell two spell levels higher.

A level 3 fighter will be slightly stronger than an astral construct you can summon at level 3, and the psion can summon, what, 4 of the things by then?

What am I missing?


I don't think pathfinder has Astral Constructs, but before the thread is moved I will say they are pretty sweet. They are not as good as a fighter though.
I know that in 3.5 you could only have one at a time, unless you took a certain prestige class that allowed you to have two of them.
If you are using DPS material I don't know if they changed that rule or not.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-bestiary/astral-construc t


Should be in compatible products. Jeremy will probably be in soon to explain :-)


The 2nd level HP spike is a concern, along with the laundry list of immunities.


They seem fairly par for the course as far as Constructs go. Most of the issues with them are directly due to the way PF handles constructs.

The idea of merging Animated Object's construction points with a summoning spell is really cool...hm.


Wraithstrike: In 3.5 you could have as many astral constructs summoned as you wanted unless you used the "errata" from Complete Psionics.

I'm going to assume a level 3 human shaper because that is the most optimal class selection. This shaper has 17 intelligence and psionic talent for 16 power points, so he can summon up to five astral constructs with 2 menu B options.

Human Fighter 3: Assume Str 16, Con 14 and Dex 13. Weapon Focus (great sword), Power Attack, Furious Focus, Dodge, and Toughness.
Greatsword +7 (2d6+7), HP 30 (33 with favored class bonus), AC 18 (+1 Dex, +1 Dodge, +6 Breastplate).

Level 2 Astral Construct: Improved Natural Attack & Power Attack for Slam +4 (1d8+7), HP 31, AC 18. (I'm assuming Power Attack gives a +3 in this case, but can't remember. Someone mind checking for me?)

So, the fighter hits 15% more often and deals 2.5 more damage per strike while having roughly the same HP and AC. Also,this power takes one round to summon. Not a full-round action, but a WHOLE round, so it doesn't even appear until the second round of combat and at this level lasts 4 rounds. (For anyone else, it costs a feat and lasts 3 round). Meanwhile, the fighter is kicking butt right from the get go.

My personal experience and opinion is that the power is balanced.


I knew there was errata somewhere. I just could not remember where.


Zeuy wrote:

So, the fighter hits 15% more often and deals 2.5 more damage per strike while having roughly the same HP and AC. Also,this power takes one round to summon. Not a full-round action, but a WHOLE round, so it doesn't even appear until the second round of combat and at this level lasts 4 rounds. (For anyone else, it costs a feat and lasts 3 round). Meanwhile, the fighter is kicking butt right from the get go.

My personal experience and opinion is that the power is balanced.

Okay, fair enough. I suppose the low-level summon monster spells are just pretty worthless then. :)


Nemal wrote:
Okay, fair enough. I suppose the low-level summon monster spells are just pretty worthless then. :)

Yes. Note that Summon Monster I and II (and Summon Nature's Ally) were deliberately made weaker in Pathfinder compared to the 3.5E versions. On the bright side, the higher level Summon Monster spells were made more powerful.

Why Dreamscarred Press didn't make Astral Construct 1 and 2 correspondingly weaker, I don't know. Maybe they just didn't think about it.

Dreamscarred Press

hogarth wrote:
Why Dreamscarred Press didn't make Astral Construct 1 and 2 correspondingly weaker, I don't know. Maybe they just didn't think about it.

Because I never had the problem with the power in my own games and it was never brought up in the over 2 years since the playtesting started until now as a balance issue - or if it was discussed, it was deemed to not be a problem. We've issued errata if something that made it to release was found to be a problem. ;)

Sept 2009 was when we started on the project. December 2010 was when we released. We released some Metamorphosis errata last month.

If you'd like to see the discussion we had in Beta on Astral Constructs, you can see them here: Psionics Unleashed - Psionic Monsters Beta

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