Spell expertise

[blue_the_wolf]

does spell expertise (minor or major) add to spells per day or just effect the casting of your spells per day.

in other words. If i am a wizard or sorc that can normally cast 5 level 1 spells per day. I takeh minor spell expertise: spell x (spell x is a level 1 spell)

does that mean that I can cast 5 spells per day plus an additional 2 castings of spell x as a spell like ability?

or does it mean that of my 5 castings per day 2 of them are allowed to be spell x cast as a spell like ability.

[Dosgamer]

It takes a spell you know and converts it into a 2/day SLA, at least that's how I read it and interpret it. This allows you to not have to prepare (in the case of a wizard) the spell in question. Presumably it is one that you cast a lot (like mage armor or shield or something similar). /salute!

[blue_the_wolf]

right...

but does that add to your spells per day.

if I can cast 5 spells per day and take spell expertice: mage armor

does that mean i have 5 spells perday plus 2 free castings of mage armor?

or does that mean i have 2 SLA castings of mage armor and 3 remaining spells per day?

[Dosgamer]

It doesn't add to your spells per day, technically. But neither do the 2/day SLA count against your daily spells.

If you can normally cast 5 spells per day then you can still cast your 5 spells per day and in addition you get 2 daily uses of one spell in particular (and once chosen it cannot be changed). You could keep mage armor up for 14+ hours a day (minimum caster level 7 to take the feat) with this feat and it wouldn't cost you a spell slot or a metamagic feat.

[blue_the_wolf]

OK so it gets me 2 castings of spell x as an SLA in addition to my normal spells per day.

thats pretty good. i like that a lot.

[Archaeik]

SLAs can't be used with metamagic though

Although you should qualify for the Quicken/Extend SLA feats(at the appropriate level)

Edit: I'd missed that it has that line in it at the end. (although redundant)

but also

Quote:

The spell-like ability’s save DC is Charisma-based.

depending on what type of SLA you want, it may change your casting stat for it.

[blue_the_wolf]

Archaeik wrote:

SLAs can't be used with metamagic though

Although you should qualify for the Quicken/Extend SLA feats(at the appropriate level)

Edit: I'd missed that it has that line in it at the end. (although redundant)

but also

Quote:

The spell-like ability’s save DC is Charisma-based.

depending on what type of SLA you want, it may change your casting stat for it.

...um....

what does that have to do with the question of spell slots?

[Archaeik]

It has to do with SLA not being spells, nor are they cast.
If you actually cast a spell, it can be subject to metamagic.
(say... if you took Spell Perfection)

[wraithstrike]

SLA's are cast. They just don't use slots which bars them from metamagic feats. There references for them being cast through the core books and the later books.

I do wish they had used the word cast instead of activated for every occasion though.

[Dosgamer]

blue_the_wolf wrote:

OK so it gets me 2 castings of spell x as an SLA in addition to my normal spells per day.

thats pretty good. i like that a lot.

And major spell expertise is not too shabby either. You won't need to memorize teleport unless you plan on doing more than 2/day! Just take major spell expertise: teleport and go globe hopping (and back!) every day. *grin*

I see this as being able to always have access to those utility spells you can never be without. Now you won't have to be (within reason) and they don't take up precious slots. Not a bad feat at all. I wouldn't use it for offensive spells, most likely.

[blue_the_wolf]

actually I was thinking about using it as a way to basically get free still/silent/eschew materials on a spell like escape artist or charm person. having said that... using it for teleport (teleport out of your bonds and teleport back fully buffed. is pretty cool too ^_^

also maybe using it for free castings of ... what ever spell you ALWAYS use.

oh... and I can quicken spell like ability to get THAT ability without using up spell slots.

Love it.

[FuelDrop]

i like the ability to get a couple of free castings of spells from your forbidden schools, stuff like dimentional door or teleport that can't be picked up through shadow conjuration for example.

[Umbranus]

Does the casting time remain the same as it was for the spell?
Or are SLA always standard action?

For example would feather fall be a standard action as SLA via minor spell expertise?
How about summon monster I?

Both examples look like it should stay the same. But often when no required action is mentioned it is in fact a standard action.

[Umbranus]

No answers?

[Corlindale]

It's the same action as the spell.

As others have said, the real benefit of Minor/Major Spell Expertise is that you get to "cast" the spell without verbal, somatic or material components. Making it useful for casting on the sly.

Extra uses per day alone is not a very good reason to take the feat, in my opinion, because by the time you can cast lvl 5 spells level 1 spell slots will be abundant, and likewise with 5th level slots by the time you get 9s.

[Ravingdork]

A game designer once stated that you could use +0 slot metamagic with spell-like abilities and that traditional metamagic didn't work, because there were no slots to increase them into.

[Thazar]

I picked up minor and the quicken SLA for a couple of swift True Strike attacks a day. Really helps with my intensified Shocking grasp, Vamp touch, Force Punch, Disintegrate, etc. when I come across those high touch AC targets or I really need to make sure my spell hits for one reason or another.