By RAW stealth you need cover or concealment at the end of your turn or you are spotted.
Now a lesser cloak of displacement or a blur spell grant 20% concealment. If a character wears that, he can always use stealth and not become spotted.
Can he use stealth in combat, observed too? Because he has concealment?
Or does he still need extra talents?
A blur spell lets you use stealth pretty much anywhere, anytime, against anything except True Seeing and Blindsight.
It doesn't let you Stealth while being observed, however. So if an opponent can see you, you need to get behind total cover or use a move action to create a diversion before you can hide again.
Spring Attack works really well for that. Run from cover, attack, and run back and stealth.
Nope. You have to make it so you are not being observed, and you need cover and/or concealment.
If you have concealment but I am eyeballing you then you can't hide.
You need something like "hide in plain sight" to hide while people are observing you.
I believe you can pick up HiPS as an Advanced Rogue Talent at lv. 10. Not sure if you can get it before then.
Edit:
I suggest Hellcat stealth if you are not a rogue or ranger.
Cast Continual Flame on a piece of your gear to always be in normal light, then find some way to put it away for free like gloves of storing or something.
Thank you.
In that case as rogue/ninja i would prefer hellcat stealth, because this way i can hide everywhere. The feat is really poorly worded, but in my logic, when you can hide while observed in bright and normal light, you can also do so in dim light and darkness, even versus creatures with darkvision. THe great dinosaur enlightened me that "hellcat" is more for the flavor, otherwise he was not so wordfull.
Other than that even with hellcat stealth i need cover/concealment at the end of the turn or be autospotted while in the open. I´m still wondering about this feat.
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Assuming you can get past direct observation, yes, you can hide n your own concealment. I'd rule that they'd still know what square you were in. They can't see YOU, but they can still see a blurry little cloud sitting on the battlefield.
Ah Ravingdork!
You mean they can without any check know where i am then? How would you handle them striking at me then? Total concealment?
It´s an interesting situation isn´t it? Very close to invisibility somehow.
I said you'd know what square they were in, nothing more. Everything else would be treated normally for a hidden person.
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It's not even a blurry cloud. You are just slightly offset. If this was Mistmail, the statement makes sense.
Tbh, the cloak should just be a miss chance, and not concealment.
Assuming you can get past direct observation, yes, you can hide n your own concealment. I'd rule that they'd still know what square you were in. They can't see YOU, but they can still see a blurry little cloud sitting on the battlefield.
Yeah, a similar situation came up in my game a while back with my rogue's mistmail. We were using the playtest stealth rules, and my DM ruled that bad guys could still tell something was there, but that I otherwise benefited from the hidden condition (as long as I could hide without being observed, etc.)
Well.
You want to say the cloak doesnt grant concealment?
Cloak:
"This item appears to be a normal cloak, but when worn by a character, its magical properties distort and warp light waves. This displacement works similar to the blur spell, granting a 20% miss chance on attacks against the wearer. It functions continually."
Blur:
"The subject's outline appears blurred, shifting, and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance).
A see invisibility spell does not counteract the blur effect, but a true seeing spell does."
Mh it says "similar", but still concealment and miss chance go hand in hand, there is no other example where it is split that i know of.
If this doesn´t work out, there are really very few good chances for rogues and stealth somehow. Obscuring mist is nice and cheap as a wand, but you hamper your party and eventually yourself with it untill all can afford 8k gp for fogcutting lenses and then you are bound to wear those, what means no darkvision goggles or anything else.
Hide in plain sight as a rogue talent is really silly in my eyes, because it is limited to one terrain. If it would be in all terrain mastery terrain, you could choose some before. I think you need at least 2 terrains where this functions, if not 3 or more. Putting all your advanced talents into this is crippling.
Actually, I was just talking theoretically. I thought the cloak said you were under the effect of blur continually. But upon actually reading the cloak, hmm. Xills have a miss chance, but not concealment. So, no clue. Feels very cheesy.
One thing to keep in mind is that it's not supposed to be easy to get sneak attacks for a rogue.
Ok thats what Sean K. said. I got it. I know it.
But think about feat tax.
With combat expertise - improved feint and greater feint you can trigger a lot of sneak attacks. That are 3 feats and a INT 13 to do this at BAB +6 what means level 8. And you just spend 3 out of 4 feats you got at that point on it. Neglecting the fact that you eventually need something like Weapon Finesse or Shadowstrike.
Now if you take skill focus stealth and hellcat stealth its a feat tax and the sneak attack is not assured considering the -10 penalty.
Actually gang up is probably the safest way to get sneak attacks, if your allies play along. All other ways i can think of require some maneuver and rolls and are therefore not ensured.
A 24000gp item is surely not cheesy.
Just like 20000gp for sniper goggles is not cheesy.
You still have a lower BAB and other lower stuff, fewer attacks (especially with sniping).
Note that i don´t call out for a rogue fix or buff, but rather i see some inconsistencies in a lot of stuff around that. Hellcat stealth and blur/lesser cloak of displacement are some of that.
So, lets not start another rogue discussion here.
Let´s stay focused on hellcat stealth, stealth, blur, lesser cloak of displacement please.