The Dervish Dance feat allows a worshipper of Sarenrae to do Dex based damage instead of Str based damage (with prerequisites). Since this isn't a supernatural ability I figured that if it made sense for another class to have why not make a rule that allows for it.
I am trying to come up with a version of Dervish Dance for the Bladebound Magus.
I've come up with a couple options and I'd like some feedback on what seems like a balanced option.
I'm taking into account that the Bladebound Magus sacrifices a lot to dedicate themselves to their blade, so in some cases I might lean towards giving them a break on some things. Also, since the Scimitar doesn't even benefit from Weapon Finesse (a prerequisite of Dervish Dance), I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to apply it to weapons that actually CAN be used by weapon finesse...
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Option 1: the Feat - "enter cool sounding name here"
Your bond with your Black Blade allows you to work together to strike with pinpoint accuracy.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Black Blade class ability, Weapon Finesse
Benefit: When wielding a Black Blade that is eligible for Weapon Finesse, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the Black Blade as a one-handed piercing (or slashing if it is normally a piercing weapon) for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
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Option 2: The Magus Arcana -
This seems like a poor choice due to the temporary nature of Arcana
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Option 3: Black Blade Class Ability -
When the Bond between you and your Black Blade is initially formed the Blade attunes itself to your particular fighting style.
If your Black Blade is eligible for Weapon Finesse and you have the Weapon Finesse feat then instead of granting the Alertness feat the Black Blade allows you to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of Strength modifier on melee attacks and damage rolls with your Black Blade. This only works if you are not carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
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Out of all of these I think the Class Ability is the overall winner. The Magus is a little feat starved to begin with so expecting him to take another feat for this seems a little excessive. Instead, sacrificing a feat granted by the Black Blade at level 3 seems like a fair way to tailor your Magus without needing to have a carbon copy Dervish Dance Black blade.
As another option, make a feat that applies for ALL classes that allows the same kind of effect as Dervish Dance. Take for example the Aldori Dueling Sword. The style of Aldori Dueling is to fight with agility and grace, usually without armor. I can't think of a better candidate for a Dex based damage swap.
Improved Weapon Finesse
Prerequisite: Dex 13+
Bonus: Any finessable weapon can add their dexterity modifier to damage rolls instead of their strength modifier.
Honestly don't know why it doesn't already exist, or just function off weapon finesse.
Hmmmmmm, +2 to Perception and Sense Motive, or add your dexterity to damage, allowing me to stack AC, reflex, Initiative, and a ton of skills? Tough choice!
No. Just because an option exists doesn't mean everyone should have it.
I have a friend who runs a scimitar-wielding magus with dervish dance. He has no problem keeping up with damage, and he's not broken next to our 2H greatsword barbarian-fighter.
Re: the text of your feat—What one-handed slashing melee weapons allow weapon finesse, again? Bladebound specifically allows for rapiers as an exception to the one-handed slashing rule. So your feat would... only apply to rapiers. Is this correct?
Cheapy wrote: Hmmmmmm, +2 to Perception and Sense Motive, or add your dexterity to damage, allowing me to stack AC, reflex, Initiative, and a ton of skills? Tough choice!
No. Just because an option exists doesn't mean everyone should have it.
The way I'm looking at is that Alertness is a feat, and so is Dervish Dance. Since I'm only suggesting to grant the same abilities that Dervish Dance does it's a straight swap. If all you're doing is removing one feat and replacing it with another, I don't see the problem.
What you're suggesting is that one feat is not worth the same as another. The magus still needs weapon finesse to qualify for this ability.
Quote: No. Just because an option exists doesn't mean everyone should have it. I agree, however since the ONLY bladebound magus that can use this MUST be a worshipper of serenrae and use a scimitar, this doesn't seem like a sensible restriction.
As it stands so long as you take Dervish Dance you can do exactly what you are suggesting. Since you can do it in the game, why restrict the Bladebound Magus who is dedicated to a single weapon when a generalist can do it for the price of one feat and some dancing lessons...
Does it seem right to restrict an Aldori Dueling Master (i.e. they have the entire feat chain including Aldori Dueling Mastery) from using their Aldori dueling sword to do dex damage instead of strength damage (they DO get the ability to change it to piercing with ADM feat) when a cleric that draws their scimitar 1 in 10 time could if they take two feats?
I agree with Cheapy. The game is about making choices to a large extent. Many times one choice will just cancel another out.
Flak wrote: I have a friend who runs a scimitar-wielding magus with dervish dance. He has no problem keeping up with damage, and he's not broken next to our 2H greatsword barbarian-fighter.
Re: the text of your feat—What one-handed slashing melee weapons allow weapon finesse, again? Bladebound specifically allows for rapiers as an exception to the one-handed slashing rule. So your feat would... only apply to rapiers. Is this correct?
The Black Blade can be any 1 handed slashing weapon and Weapon Finesse works with any light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain, so all light weapons that do slashing damage would qualify as would the whip (weird but a Black Blade can be a whip as it stands). Taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Aldori Dueling Sword allows you to use Weapon Finesse with the Aldori Dueling Sword as well.
The Scimitar, ironically, would not.
I got onto this topic because someone was asking about making an Aldori Dueling Sword Bladebound Kensai (which sounds like an excellent match). The Kensai Archetype grants the exotic weapon proficiency needed.
The unanimous opinion was that he would be much better off taking Scimitar with Dervish Dance because he would get both attack and damage based on Dex, so he could dump Strength altogether.
Here's the description of an Aldori Swordlord (fighter archetype)
Quote: The Aldori swordlords of Brevoy are among the deadliest and most feared fighters of the Inner Sea. They have spent long years mastering the Aldori dueling sword, against both other dueling swords and all manner of other weaponry. Their speed and reflexes weave a net of impenetrable steel around them, from which they strike and harry their unfortunate opponents. This variant focuses on avoiding damage and disarming foes; swordlords prefer wearing light or no armor, trusting their skill with their blades for protection. I gotta say this sure seems like a good candidate for dex based damage instead of strength.
So if the character has the prerequisite exotic weapon feat Aldori Dueling Sword, why not allow it?
A kensai is simply an arcane version of a swordlord.
Here's the definition of a Kensai from wikipedia:
In ancient Japan, a kensei (剣聖?, sword's saint; sometimes rendered in English as Kensai, Ken Sai, Kansei, or Kenshei) was an honorary title given to a warrior of legendary skill in swordsmanship. The literal translation of "kensei" is "sword saint". Thus, the term is considered by some to imply a higher degree of perfection (possibly also encompassing a moral dimension) than the more commonly used kengō (剣豪?) or "great sword." This is not to be confused with the word kenshi (剣士), meaning "swordsman".
Among swordsmen widely regarded as kensei, the most famous one is Miyamoto Musashi (宮本武蔵?). Other historical kensei are often the founders of popular schools of swordsmanship. Although there is no such written rule, the title carries such prestige that it is commonly understood that there should be no more than one kensei at any given time.
So, a magus that dedicates themselves to their blade to the point that they can form a mystical bond with their blade does not seem unrealistic either.
On a side note, I also think the kensai alone should be able to do the same with their weapon (if they have weapon finesse)
Quote: The Black Blade can be any 1 handed slashing weapon and Weapon Finesse works with any light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain, so all light weapons that do slashing damage would qualify as would the whip (weird but a Black Blade can be a whip as it stands) One-handed is a weapon category, just like light. Bladebound specifies one-handed: scimitars, longswords, katanas, etc. Yes, whips—they are one-handed slashing weapons. But not light slashing weapons (so no dagger, sickle, dog slicer, handaxe, or war razor). Rapiers (light piercing) and sword canes (one-handed piercing) are the two explicit exceptions in the RAW.
(And yes, the scimitar usually does not work with Weapon Finesse, but Dervish Dance lets it. And you don't need to be a Sarenrae worshipper to use it.)
Note: I'm not talking about what SHOULD be the case, or what's reasonable, just pointing at the rules as written. Personally I don't see the problem with allowing any melee weapon as a black blade (not sure why they need to be 'blades' at all...), nor with Dex to damage in general (yeah, it's amazing and broken, but when you're playing with powergamers who optimize SAD classes, there's really no reason not to allow it).
Flak wrote: Quote: The Black Blade can be any 1 handed slashing weapon and Weapon Finesse works with any light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain, so all light weapons that do slashing damage would qualify as would the whip (weird but a Black Blade can be a whip as it stands) One-handed is a weapon category, just like light. Bladebound specifies one-handed: scimitars, longswords, katanas, etc. Yes, whips—they are one-handed slashing weapons. But not light slashing weapons (so no dagger, sickle, dog slicer, handaxe, or war razor). Rapiers (light piercing) and sword canes (one-handed piercing) are the two explicit exceptions in the RAW.
(And yes, the scimitar usually does not work with Weapon Finesse, but Dervish Dance lets it. And you don't need to be a Sarenrae worshipper to use it.)
Note: I'm not talking about what SHOULD be the case, or what's reasonable, just pointing at the rules as written. Personally I don't see the problem with allowing any melee weapon as a black blade (not sure why they need to be 'blades' at all...), nor with Dex to damage in general (yeah, it's amazing and broken, but when you're playing with powergamers who optimize SAD classes, there's really no reason not to allow it). I stand corrected, one-handed is a specific category of weapon, so light weapons can't be black blades. Ironically, a Combat Scabbard (sharpened), could be a "black blade". A more interesting idea (if eastern weapons are allowed) would be something like the Urumi if you're going for more flavor.
I don't understand. Isn't every munchkin magus a scimitar wielding dancing dervish of Sarenrae already?
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