So when I started my current campaign, I had a player immediately want to play a druid. I knew right off the bat that he would eventually have the ability to summon Cyclops, and I already had a feeling that it would be a bad thing. I'm sure it's been posted on here before, but I would like to just reiterate the math
Character drops a 6th level spell to cast Summon Nature's Ally VI to summon 1d3+1 (with superior and augment summoning) Cyclopses. (Cyclopsi?)
Each chooses to roll a 20 on its initial attack, and gets +13 to confirm its crit (It could also power attack, getting a +10 to confirm). If it confirms, it does 9d6+27 damage, or 9d6+54 on a power attack. Lets assume a scenario where you roll a 3 on your d3, that would give you 4 such creatures, who could surround a target, flanking it (which would increase your chance to confirm the crit by 10%)
If all 4 summoned creatures confirm their crits, and were power attacking, that means you would be doing 36d6+216 damage, or an average of 342 damage.
Now, the minimum level to cast a 6th level druid spell is 11, so lets assume you are fighting a CR 11 creature (which should be a tough but manageable encounter). Lets just pick a monster that is about as classic a monster in the genre that you will ever face:
Juvenile Red Dragon
The dragon has an AC of 35, meaning that barring any other buffs or debuffs, if its being flanked by 4 cyclopsi, you would need a 13 to confirm your crit, or a 35% chance to crit. This means you have a little over 1/3 of a chance of confirming your crit, which is like rolling 4 dice, and having them all come up 5's and 6's. (an event that many of us as regular gamers, have seen frequently).
Lets assume the law averages works, and 1 out of three of these monsters crits, but the rest get normal hits. The monster that crits would do an average of 85 damage, and the three that got regular hits would do 28 average damage, totaling 84 damage (in all scenarios, I round down any fraction). for a total of 169 damage. The dragon has 149 hit points. Dragon has a Con of 21, meaning that would leave it at -20 hit points, and one hit point away from instant death.
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This is a lot of quick math, and I'm sure somebody will find my scenario flawed in some way, but my basic point, is that every time the Druid in my party has cast this spell (which has been precisely twice) it has ended the fight with little to no trouble. In both cases, he only summoned 1 Cyclops, but did confirm the crit, doing singly enough damage to ruin whatever monster I threw at them.
So my question is poised thusly: Am I right to nerf this? Am I just a whiny DM who needs to think harder about how to challenge his players? If I nerf this, should I just remove Cyclops from the list of summonable creatures, or should I change the Cyclops Insight ability to something more manageable?
Comments, criticism and sarcasm all welcome.
The Swish
I must be missing something. How do you get a +13 attack bonus needing a 13 to hit a creature with 35 AC, even including a +2 flanking bonus?
I agree that the cyclops's auto-threaten ability has the potential to be pretty wicked, though.
And there's my mistake, that was quick. Its supposed to be 25 AC, not 35. An AC 35 monster at CR 11 would be a nightmare to fight.
The player does not get to deiced when the cyclops uses this ability. I would say it would be completely fine to have the cyclops use the ability to succeed on a saving throw.
Otherwise Cyclops Scythe Squad (Combine with battle clerics aura of confirmed crits) and you just "won" the game.
Cyclops are pretty sweet. They saved me in the CoT, but they are not an autowin. I would let it stay as is.
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The plural of cyclops in English is "cyclopses", although Paizo has opted to go with the Greek "cyclopes" (an awesome choice, in my opinion).
"Cyclopes" is pronounced "sai-klo-peas"...
"Cyclopsi" would only work if it were Latin, not Greek. Note that the same is true of octopus and "octopodes" — the proper English plural is actually octopusses (and octopi is nonsense, despite what my computer's spell checker believes, because "octopus" isn't Latin).
The player does not get to deiced when the cyclops uses this ability. I would say it would be completely fine to have the cyclops use the ability to succeed on a saving throw.
Otherwise Cyclops Scythe Squad (Combine with battle clerics aura of confirmed crits) and you just "won" the game.
I disagree. The druid commands the Cyclops, and if the Cyclops can understand him (they speak common), he should be able to dictate when his summons use their abilities just fine.
Cyclops, other than Flash of Insight, is significantly weaker than the other summons. Getting that is literally the only reason to summon them...
The player does not get to deiced when the cyclops uses this ability. I would say it would be completely fine to have the cyclops use the ability to succeed on a saving throw.
Otherwise Cyclops Scythe Squad (Combine with battle clerics aura of confirmed crits) and you just "won" the game.
The devs can't think of every possible rule combination.
PS:What aura of confirmed crits are you talking about?
In any event I am sure confirming a crit is not a game winner.
Now back to the crit aura again. I am curious.
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The plural of cyclops in English is "cyclopses", although Paizo has opted to go with the Greek "cyclopes" (an awesome choice, in my opinion).
"Cyclopes" is pronounced "sai-klo-peas"...
"Cyclopsi" would only work if it were Latin, not Greek. Note that the same is true of octopus and "octopodes" — the proper English plural is actually octopusses (and octopi is nonsense, despite what my computer's spell checker believes, because "octopus" isn't Latin).
+1
Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity!While I'm in the rant, "its" means "belonging to it"; "it's" means "it is". "Their" means "belonging to them"; "they're" means "they are". And "penultimate" means "second to last".
SAGOTEL, by the way, is an acronym for Self-Appointed Guardians of the English Lexicon. Evil Lincoln, you are invited to join the group.
PS:What aura of confirmed crits are you talking about?
In any event I am sure confirming a crit is not a game winner.
Now back to the crit aura again. I am curious.
"Destruction Domain
Granted Powers: You revel in ruin and devastation, and can deliver particularly destructive attacks.
Destructive Aura (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of destruction for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. All attacks made against targets in this aura (including you) gain a morale bonus on damage equal to 1/2 your cleric level and all critical threats are automatically confirmed. These rounds do not need to be consecutive."
I don't really think this "wins" the game, but I do think it is kind of cheesy. If my GM started doing this to me as a player, I would not enjoy it.