I'm preparing to run Tomb of the Iron Medusa (14th level) with a group of four next month. To my surprise, I just learned that they are all going to play good-aligned clerics. While I'm not going to disallow it, I'm concerned about how this will play out since I've never GM'd an all-cleric party. I also don't want the encounters to become too imbalanced either way. Any suggestions?
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{Bows to might Wraithstrike}
Hmmm We ran Carrion Crown AP with all Inquisitors (each one taking a different domain of the same god) it was interesting. Only 2 of 6 made it to the end. That being said clerics are different.
Question... What books are open? Are they each taking a different archetype? They can very their abilities greatly that it could be a fairly balanced group with different domain/archetype abilities. The only thing I see is death will not be an issue, all already capable of 7 th level spells. The healing factor/channels will be crazy.
{Bows to might Wraithstrike}
Hmmm We ran Carrion Crown AP with all Inquisitors (each one taking a different domain of the same god) it was interesting. Only 2 of 6 made it to the end. That being said clerics are different.
Question... What books are open? Are they each taking a different archetype? They can very their abilities greatly that it could be a fairly balanced group with different domain/archetype abilities. The only thing I see is death will not be an issue, all already capable of 7 th level spells. The healing factor/channels will be crazy.
The only books I'm allowing are the core and APG, so there wont be any archtypes but there will certainly be a variety of different domains. So far only one has sent me a complete character - a 1st level fighter/13th level cleric of Iomedae with the Law and Good domains. I expect the others will fill out the various roles with different cleric builds, but haven't seen them yet. At this level I don't think party balance will be an issue as much as power balance will. Four 14th level divine spellcasters is a lot of firepower and, as you mentioned, death and healing almost become a non-issue.
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I do not know the Iron Medusa module... Is it undead heavy? If so they could really tip over your apple cart. What are the challenges in the module? I totally agree with you on the healing aspect. If they say run into a trap heavy dungeon... Its not going to be dangerous to them unlee it kills them outright and even then Breath of Life or Raise Dead or Rez with/Restro will solve it.
One of the simplest cleric builds that saved many a PC in one of my games was a base cleric - Heal Domain + Reach metamagic + Any Cure spell or Breath of life.
- One option (which I hardly ever use) is counter spelling. Every encounter would get old but for Boss fights might help out.
- Antimagic field (6th wiz.sorc spell) will do them in big time, then wade in with Barbarians or Constructs...
3.5 had a great PRC class that could mess with them greatly... They could be an ongoing enemy working against them.
The Athar
The “gods” are liars, every single one of them—liars and frauds. They aren’t deities. They’re mortals—extremely powerful mortals, to be sure, but nothing more. They are given to petty emotions, they require sustenance in the form of prayers and the belief of their followers, and, when denied that, they die. Think about it: If the deities really are the source of all creation, why is it that many clerics can cast divine magic without devoting themselves to any deity? There may indeed be an omnipotent entity (or collection of entities) responsible for making and tending reality, but if so, thatpower must be completely incomprehensible to the minds of mere mortals. Members of the organization known as the Athar refer to this theoretical true god as “the Great Unknown.”
PRC
- Defiant
Even among the zealous Athar, a special few are regarded with awe and respect for their dedication to the cause. These individuals, called defi ants, once worshiped divine beings for power but turned from the path. They now take the teaching of the Athar to heart in a way that grants them tremendous powers against those who claim to wield
divine might.
- Clerics who are not affiliated with a particular deity Clerics who are not affi liated with a particular deity make good defi ants, as do druids, monks, rangers, and other individuals who live their lives in passionate dedication to a set of beliefs. Paladins and clerics who lose faith in their patron deities may become defi ants, particularly if they have come to question the validity of their former benefactor’s claim to the title of “god.”
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the defi ant prestige
class.
Weapon and Armor Profi ciency: Defi ants gain no profi
ciency with any weapon or armor.
Spell Resistance (Su): A defiant gains spell resistance
equal to 15 + class level against all divine mind-affecting spells.
He cannot voluntarily lower this spell resistance. This
benefit does not stack with other sources of spell resistance.
When a defi ant is the target of a divine mind-affecting spell,
he uses his highest spell resistance value.
Divine Resistance (Su): At 2nd level and higher, a defi -
ant adds his Charisma modifi er (if positive) to his saving
throws against divine spells.
Divine Damage Immunity (Su): At 3rd level, a defi ant
gains immunity to damage from divine power, such as that
dealt by a fl ame strike spell.
Divine Cancellation (Ex): At 4th level, a defiant
learns how to counterspell divine spells without casting
a spell. The defiant must ready an action to counterspell
(as normal), but need not identify the spell with
Spellcraft. Treat this ability as if the defiant were using
dispel magic to counter the spell, at a caster level of 5 +
the defiant’s class level. A defiant can use this ability a
number of times per day equal to 1 + his Charisma bonus
(minimum 1).
Aligned Strike (Su): A defiant of 5th level or higher
can, with a touch, align a weapon or natural weapon so
that it is treated as of a specifi c alignment for the purpose
of overcoming damage reduction. The defi ant can choose
any alignment (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful), even if that
alignment opposes his own. He may not use this ability on
any weapon that already has an alignment. He can use this
ability once per day at 5th level and twice per day at 10th
level. Each use lasts for a number of minutes equal to his
class level.
Divine Prevention (Su): Once per day, a defi ant of 6th
level or higher can use a standard action to bestow temporary
spell resistance (15 + class level) upon a single target.
The spell resistance affects only the next divine spell targeted
at the subject, even a benefi cial spell such as bless or
cure light wounds. If the target has not used the spell resistance
within 24 hours, it fades.
- If the target is unwilling, the defiant must make a successful
touch attack as a standard action. If the attack succeeds, the
target must attempt a Will saving throw (DC 10 + defi ant’s
class level + defi ant’s Cha modifi er). If the saving throw fails,
the spell resistance takes effect.
Nondetection (Su): At 7th level, a defiant gains the
continuous benefi t of a nondetection spell as though cast by
a sorcerer of a level equal to the defi ant’s class level. The DC
of any attempt to break through the effect is equal to 15 +
the defi ant’s class level.
- A defiant can choose to suppress this ability. Suppressing
or reestablishing it is a free action.
Divine Retribution (Su): At 8th level, a defi ant expands
the versatility of his divine cancellation ability. If he successfully
counters a divine spell, the defi ant may cause the
spell to rebound at the original caster instead of causing
it to fail. This ability can be used only against divine spells
that target the defiant, not spells that affect an area or those
that target another creature.
Divine Interference (Su): At 9th level, a defi ant’s connection
to the Great Unknown becomes so strong that he
generates a field that interferes with all divine spellcasting.
Any spellcaster within 30 feet of the defi ant must succeed
on a Concentration check (DC 15 + defiant’s class level +
spell level) in order to successfully cast a divine spell. If
the check fails, the spell fails and is lost. A defi ant cannot
choose to suppress this ability.
Divine Disavowal (Su): At 10th level, a defi ant’s spell
resistance extends to cover all divine spells. He cannot
voluntarily lower this spell resistance. This benefi t does not
stack with other sources of spell resistance. When a defi ant
is the target of a divine spell, he uses his highest spell resistance
value.
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Here's an idea - try to trick them into disobeying their gods. Throw in some challenges that come from a moral gray area - for example, a chaotic good Robin Hood type character that murders corrupt nobles and gives their loot to orphan children. If they're lawful, they should oppose it; if they're good, they should support it. Or if that doesn't suit you, something along those lines - something that's not blatantly evil. Maybe a semi-corrupted angel? Or perhaps an evil character tricks some other clerics into fighting them? (Cleric battle royale sounds kind of entertaining)
Also, I'd keep an eye out for something that clerics can't heal. No idea what that might be, though... Maybe you could houserule some kind of curse.
Try including some special areas where the channel abilities of the various clerics alternate? To give an example let's name our 4 clerics: A, B, C and D.
In Area 1, A & B's channel abilities act normally and use positive. By design or random chance C & D's become Negative Energy.
In Area 2, A & D's channel abilities are not positive or negative but Fire! While B & C channel Water.
In area 3, All cleric's channels act normally.
In area 4, All cleric's channels act opposite to their normal one (Negative channels positive, vice versa).
In area 5, each rolls a dice that determines their channels (i.e. d6 would be 1 = negative, 2 = fire, 3 = water, 6= positive)
In area 6, enemies manipulate who is affected by the channels as if they had the selective channel ability (using the PC's stats etc.)
Make it very wonky and they will have a blast. To provide interesting events while not letting them overrun a potentially undead-heavy campaign.
I'm guessing there is going to be a lack of DPS, even if some clerics are optimized for melee/ranged combat.
I'm not familiar with Iron Medusa, obviously undead or lots of rests between encounters is going to help them.
In PFS, one party who had 2 clerics (out of 4 PCs) TPKed. Another party had the same thing and the lack of DPS was painful and really obvious. I'll be avoiding that again at all costs.
I do not know the Iron Medusa module... Is it undead heavy?
There is some undead in it, of course, but not that much considering its a tomb adventure.
What are the challenges in the module?
There is a chance my players will see this thread so I can't disclose too many details, but there are a some traps/ puzzles as well as outsiders.
- Antimagic field (6th wiz.sorc spell) will do them in big time, then wade in with Barbarians or Constructs...
Yes, I have already made plans for this sort of encounter as well. This type of encounter can really spell doom for an all spellcaster party, so I'll have to balance this one carefully.
Thanks for the prestige class, I've never seen that one before and will make a great addition to the game.
Here's an idea - try to trick them into disobeying their gods. Throw in some challenges that come from a moral gray area
Tomb of the Iron Medusa has a very cool backstory where I can really play with that idea, and it occured to me is that I should really put each cleric's faith to the test. Thanks Reynard.
Try including some special areas where the channel abilities of the various clerics alternate?
Considering how much channeling ther will be, this is a must. Also, there are many areas of the tomb that are cursed and it is inevitable that some will suffer from it. This is a good curse alternative. Excellent idea.
I'm guessing there is going to be a lack of DPS, even if some clerics are optimized for melee/ranged combat.
Pardon my ignorance...what's DPS? "Damage per...?"
DPS: Damage Per Second (video-gamercant)
I've seen it a few times before in 3.5e might not be the same for PF. It worked well if there was some multiclassing with say fighter for the melee cleric, with rogue for the skill/sneak cleric, and things like that. The best set was a rogue/cleric (~1/4 levels in rogue), barb4/cleric, paldin/cleric, and a straight caster cleric.
The one time a saw it with all straight single class clerics it didn't go so well. It was a little shy on straight combat ability, pretty high on casting capability, but they were dying on skill and non-combat capabilities.
I ran a 3.5 group way back when with a cleric, druid, favored soul(cleric that casts like sorcerer). There wasn't a problem for them at all. It was more difficult for me to challenge them without going overboard.
I see clerics as the most versatile class in the game, at least at low levels. I think it would run really smoothly provided nothing unfair is thrown between them and their gods. Players losing powers for no good reason is never fun.