Stealth and Running

[warren Burgess]

Ok what if the Elf PC has the Silent Hunter Trait and move at a Speed greater than normal by taking a double move? is it counted as running and takes a -20 or no penalty at all?

Stealth:

Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. You can move up to half your normal speed and use Stealth at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.

Silent Hunter:

Elves are renowned for their subtlety and skill. Elves with this racial trait reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5 and can make Stealth checks while running at a –20 penalty (this number includes the penalty reduction from this racial trait). This racial trait replaces the elven magic racial trait.

[bigkilla]

Double moves are not runs. Running is: You move four times your speed while running (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or three times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load), and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC.

[warren Burgess]

So the above Elf would take No stealth penalty if moveing greater than normal speed in a round?

[bigkilla]

warren Burgess wrote:

So the above Elf would take No stealth penalty if moveing greater than normal speed in a round?

That looks correct to me, the trait negates the -5 for moving greater than half his speed.Since he is still only doing normal movement by taking a double move and not a run it looks right.

[warren Burgess]

but the -5 is only applied when moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed and a double move is greater than your normal move, this is the part that is confusing me here.

[StabbittyDoom]

For a given move action you can do a half move, full move or somewhere in between. That is what the -5 reduction is for. Run is a separate and specific full-round action and that is what they give a -20 for (whereas it is normally impossible).

This means that double move would go under half move (if you do two half moves for a total movement equal to your move speed), full move (a normal double-move) or in the middle (if both move actions are at least 5 ft less than your full movement) and penalties would be supplied appropriately.

In other words, with double move you just consider each movement action separately and apply penalties as such. Since run is a single action, rather than two, it's easier to figure out.

[bigkilla]

warren Burgess wrote:

but the -5 is only applied when moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed and a double move is greater than your normal move, this is the part that is confusing me here.

So he would take no penalty for taking two move actions that are less than his normal movement.I will assume his normal movement is 30 so if he moves 25 as one move action then 25 as a second move action he is moving under his normal movement of 30 so no penalties.

[warren Burgess]

So what is the normal penalty for moving your full movement as for some reason my book it only mentions moving less than full speed but not at full speed.

[warren Burgess]

"bump"

[Archaeik]

Okay, it appears RAW lacks the exact verbiage you're looking for, but I assume that when they say

"When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed"

they mean

"When moving at a speed greater than half but up to your normal speed"

RAW (1/2 < X < 1)
RAI (1/2 < X <= 1)

[Stynkk]

warren Burgess wrote:

So what is the normal penalty for moving your full movement as for some reason my book it only mentions moving less than full speed but not at full speed.

From what I've seen so far from the developers is that because the Core Rules did not have any ways to exceed the stealth rules then they didn't account for it.

There is no defined number of what the penalty should be if you move at your full speed with a move action. However, it seems that this is not possible without having traits or feats that allow you to break the rule.

So your Elf can either:

Use Move Action (Move Up to Half Speed, No Penalty)
Use Move Action (Move LESS than normal speed, No Penalty)
Use Full-Round Action to Run (Move 4x Speed with a -20 penalty).

From what I'm reading you can't move your normal speed. I don't know if this is intentional, but it is the rules define - since they clearly lay out every situation except moving your normal speed.

@archaeik
I'm not sure that's what they mean.

[Archaeik]

Given that the previous line says "up to half your normal speed", I think it's just an oversight that they didn't word it the same way on the next.

Going by RAW, you absolutely can't move your speed without incurring the run penalties. (ie no stealth or must be elf with this trait)

I'd love to hear an explanation of how moving your full speed while stealthed breaks the game. (This is not directed at anyone in particular)

[Stynkk]

Archaeik wrote:

I'd love to hear an explanation of how moving your full speed while stealthed breaks the game. (This is not directed at anyone in particular)

My best suggestion is that it is possible the developers thought if you moved at your full speed, you wouldn't be taking care to hide your presence.