Wizard + Alchemist, on known spells / formulae

[cmastah]

Ok, so we have a wizard level 1 with 20 int and a level 1 alchemist with 19 int.

What I figured from the known spells is:

Wizard knows all 0-level spells, can cast 3, he knows TEN 1-level spells and can cast 3. I was thinking that the description states he know 3 plus his intelligence modifier, and I added that because he has 20 int, he knows an ADDITIONAL two spells. He can cast 3 level 1 spells because 1 is from his class level, the other two are bonus from his intelligence score.

The alchemist knows 6 formulae because it is 1 from his 19 int, and an additional 1 plus his intelligence modifier. He can also only use two extracts a day. Also, he can brew a potion out of anything in his extract list (not mutagens or bombs though) and THAT potion (made with item creation rules) can be shared with others.

Keeping in mind that this is all at level 1, did I get my math right? I'm only asking because my wizard is complaining that his character knows eight spells (I did the math and I'm thinking it's ten) but can only prepare three and the alchemist is complaining because he can only prepare two extracts a day.

[Mergy]

I'm not sure where you're getting 10 spells known. 3 + intelligence modifier for a 20 int is 8. A non-specialist wizard with 20 intelligence does indeed get only 3 spells per day. That's what it's like being a first level wizard.

Your alchemist should start with 6 (2 + intelligence modifier) and yes, he only gets two extracts per day. He would get three with a 20 intelligence, but he doesn't so he doesn't.

Your players should stop complaining. They're level 1 and it's supposed to suck to be level 1.

[blackbloodtroll]

Your alchemist can always copy the spells out of your wizard's spellbook.

[Jen the GM]

Well that's the cost of being a god at higher levels. :)

[jjaamm]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Your alchemist can always copy the spells out of your wizard's spellbook.

And the wizard cant copy from alchemist, wait till he finds that.

[Bobson]

The point of the wizard is great versatility. The point of a sorcerer is lots of spells per day. The wizard will always know far more spells than he can cast per day. A sorcerer is the reverse. If he's complaining about knowing too many spells, he should be a sorc instead.

[cmastah]

Mergy wrote:

I'm not sure where you're getting 10 spells known. 3 + intelligence modifier for a 20 int is 8. A non-specialist wizard with 20 intelligence does indeed get only 3 spells per day. That's what it's like being a first level wizard.

Your alchemist should start with 6 (2 + intelligence modifier) and yes, he only gets two extracts per day. He would get three with a 20 intelligence, but he doesn't so he doesn't.

Your players should stop complaining. They're level 1 and it's supposed to suck to be level 1.

Heheh, I did try to explain it to them, they're worried that they're not going to be effective for the whole duration of a battle (even though the first battle only lasted long enough for the wizard to cast ONE spell, possibly even a cantrip).

The thing is, I assumed that it was 3+int modifier PLUS from a table of bonus spells, but I see now that it's bonus spells per day only, not spells known.

Also, I found a list in the core rulebook that outlined how much it COULD cost to get a wizard to let you learn a spell from his spellbook, the thing that has me a little confused is, why is there a cost associated for 0-level spells if a wizard knows all of them already?

Also, how many spells from a wizards spellbook can an alchemist learn? Are there any spells that CAN'T be turned into extracts? I read that spells with divine foci can't be learned, but do arcane spells use divine foci?

{And thanks to everyone for their tips and helpful replies :) }

[Sangalor]

cmastah wrote:

Heheh, I did try to explain it to them, they're worried that they're not going to be effective for the whole duration of a battle (even though the first battle only lasted long enough for the wizard to cast ONE spell, possibly even a cantrip).

At low levels wizards need to rely on weaponry like crossbows or staffs like every other character. There 0th level spells like ray of frost help a bit, though. They are not worse off compared to other classes with a +0 BAB at that level.

cmastah wrote:

Also, I found a list in the core rulebook that outlined how much it COULD cost to get a wizard to let you learn a spell from his spellbook, the thing that has me a little confused is, why is there a cost associated for 0-level spells if a wizard knows all of them already?

Specialist wizards don't learn them. Also, some DMs may limit the spells you know to CRB and make you pay for those in other books. Also, if you lose your spellbook you need a source to start anew - which includes getting all those 0th level spells as well.

Finally, you might want to keep reserve spell books, then it costs you additional costs to scribe them, though not to learn them.

cmastah wrote:

Also, how many spells from a wizards spellbook can an alchemist learn? Are there any spells that CAN'T be turned into extracts? I read that spells with divine foci can't be learned, but do arcane spells use divine foci?

{And thanks to everyone for their tips and helpful replies :) }

You can only turn spells into extracts that are on the alchemist extracts list already.

[cmastah]

Thanks for the info :)