How does one go about nerfing the Lich template?


Homebrew and House Rules


It's designed for encounters of a minimum CR of 12, ideally higher. I want something fit for encounters of a CR between 7 and 10, with a caster level requirement of either 5 or 6 to become one. What power reductions would the template need to do this, and how much should the phylactery cost? I think the DR needs to be dropped to 10 and the touch attack to 1d6 damage, but beyond that I just don't know.


Have you considered the Skeletal Champion template? It's considerably weaker but gives the same look.

The Exchange

If you have the Bestiary 2, you'd probably get a lot of mileage out of the Juju Zombie template. Don't let the slightly silly name throw you off - it's a decent template and very nice for spellcasters.

For that matter, there's another superb evil-spellcaster template in the same volume - the Worm that Walks. Even more brutal in some ways, particularly if the PCs mistake it for undead at first...

There's also a sample 'failed lich' in The Infernal Syndrome, part four of 'Council of Thieves,' which you could refer to for inspiration.


Spoiler for Kingmaker:
Kingmaker 3 has a lich that is weaker than normal, with a template for it.


It's a matter of fluff. What makes a lich a lich fits what I have in mind for the BBEG. Skeletal Champion doesn't, especially since the BBEG uses Gentle Repose to avoid looking like she's undead. However, I don't want to run a higher level campaign, so a vanilla lich would be too much for the party to handle.

The Exchange

Mama Kelsey wrote:
...the BBEG uses Gentle Repose to avoid looking like she's undead...

A classic dodge first attributed, I believe, to Szass Tam. But that also lets out my suggestion of a Worm that Walks: they're nearly as hard to disguise as skeletal undead. Darn.


Lincoln Hills wrote:

If you have the Bestiary 2, you'd probably get a lot of mileage out of the Juju Zombie template. Don't let the slightly silly name throw you off - it's a decent template and very nice for spellcasters.

For that matter, there's another superb evil-spellcaster template in the same volume - the Worm that Walks. Even more brutal in some ways, particularly if the PCs mistake it for undead at first...

I like the Juju Zombie, but I'm using it for lower level threats in the campaign, not the BBEG. Juju Zombies don't suck, but the way a lich is created and why is necessary to the BBEG.


Cheapy wrote:
Spoiler for Kingmaker:
Kingmaker 3 has a lich that is weaker than normal, with a template for it.

I don't have any adventure paths. Is it in one of the SRDs?


Lincoln Hills wrote:
Mama Kelsey wrote:
...the BBEG uses Gentle Repose to avoid looking like she's undead...
A classic dodge first attributed, I believe, to Szass Tam. But that also lets out my suggestion of a Worm that Walks: they're nearly as hard to disguise as skeletal undead. Darn.

I don't know who that is. The idea was suggested to me on Giant in the Playground when discussing a vanilla lich.


Take the lich template, apply it to your bad guy. You are done. The only requirement is that the lich can craft it's phylactery, but you can hand-wave that yourself. Reduce the DR to something more reasonable, like maybe 10. Blundgeoning and magic is a tough one to overcome since bladed weapons are much more popular and mechanically better. Don't worry about the damage of the touch attack, because it will be much lower because it is based on HD.


re-label the skeltal champion template as baby lich. or the juju zombie one.

szass tam is a powerful wizard / lich in the forgotten realms campaign setting.


Talynonyx already called it. If you feel you need to, reduce the DR. Otherwise just go with it. Use the template as is. No changes. It isn't actually that powerful.


Cheapy wrote:
Spoiler for Kingmaker:
Kingmaker 3 has a lich that is weaker than normal, with a template for it.

A spoiler would have been nice. Now I know a lich is in store for my wizard as we are starting Book 3 on Sunday.


Mama Kelsey wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Spoiler for Kingmaker:
Kingmaker 3 has a lich that is weaker than normal, with a template for it.
I don't have any adventure paths. Is it in one of the SRDs?

They have not put it on the site yet, but I do have it.

monster Kelsey might use from the AP:
It is the lich template, but the lich can not use its phylactery to come back to life until he reaches caster level 11 again.


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Threw spoilers everywhere!

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