Do Witch Hexes count as 'charms'?

[deusvult]

Title says it all.

Common sense says some of them obviously should be, but the 'foo word' just doesn't seem to appear.

[Jiggy]

deusvult wrote:

Title says it all.

Common sense says some of them obviously should be, but the 'foo word' just doesn't seem to appear.

If I had a nickel for every Hex question that seems to assume that Quality X must be possessed by either all or none of the witch's hexes... ;)

Read each hex. For instance:

Charm (Su) wrote:

This is a mind-affecting charm effect.

So this one is.

Evil Eye (Su) wrote:

This is a mind-affecting effect.

So this one's not (though it's mind-affecting).

And so forth. (After a quick glance, "Charm" is the only hex I noticed in the APG that says it's a charm, but I haven't checked other books.)

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

deusvult wrote:

Title says it all.

Common sense says some of them obviously should be, but the 'foo word' just doesn't seem to appear.

I know the Charm hex is a charm effect.

What other hexes do you think should be charms?

[Tom S 820]

none

[deusvult]

I didn't see that charm hex did go ahead and specify.. so yeah. I guess that one and only that one is.

*shrug*

It is what it is.

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

deusvult wrote:

I didn't see that charm hex did go ahead and specify.. so yeah. I guess that one and only that one is.

*shrug*

It is what it is.

What other ones did you think should be Charms?

(I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, just honestly curious).

[deusvult]

Well I had thought that things like Slumber, Fortune and Misfortune, probably Evil Eye should have qualified.

I had assumed there was such a thing as a charm that was not specifically charm(enchantment subschool). Or that charms might have applications beyond modifying attitudes. Apparently that's why I got confused.

[Jiggy]

deusvult wrote:

Well I had thought that things like Slumber, Fortune and Misfortune, probably Evil Eye should have qualified.

I had assumed there was such a thing as a charm that was not specifically charm(enchantment subschool). Apparently that's why I got confused.

I was looking for it on those, too. Looking into "charm" effects now, though, the description is just one sentence: "Charm: A charm spell changes how the subject views you, typically making it see you as a good friend."

So I guess "charms" are pretty narrow. The broader school of "enchantment" (of which "charm" is a subschool) is defined thus:

Enchantment wrote:

Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior.

All enchantments are mind-affecting spells. Two subschools of enchantment spells grant you influence over a subject creature.

That's pretty close to how I was originally thinking of "charm", and I imagine it was similar for you?

So now the question is this: Are the aforementioned hexes "enchantment" effects? As much as they seem like they should be, the only one listed as such is Waxen Image. Go figure. :P

[Arbane the Terrible]

As long as we're talking about it, has anyone come up with a good use for the Charm Hex that doesn't require the witch to laugh like a madwoman while trying to be diplomatic? It seems too weak and short-duration to be much use, unless you zap someone with it out of combat then immediately start diplomancing to get a head-start on 'friendly'.

[spalding]

I agree about the charm hex feeling pretty weak.

Beyond that I think what you are looking for is the 'keywords' mind affecting not charm. Many hexes are mind affecting and as such would have no effect on undead, or constructs.

[Quatar]

The next question is, why does it matter if some of the hexes are charm or enchantment effects?
I'm pretty sure stuff like Spell Focus etc does not affect hexes at all, because they are not spells.

[Jiggy]

Elven resistances.

[deusvult]

Reason it came up and got me looking was the Empty Heart, Full Heart trait. (+1 saves vs charms, -1 to saves vs YOUR charms)

[Jiggy]

deusvult wrote:

Reason it came up and got me looking was the Empty Heart, Full Heart trait. (+1 saves vs charms, -1 to saves vs YOUR charms)

That is a very interesting trait. I kind of like it. What's the fluff on it?

[deusvult]

Naderi's faith trait. (Goddess of Lovesick Suicides, minor goddess in the Neutral Deities book)

Not sure how kosher it is to type in the fluff, since it's not in the PRD. But it seemed very emo/goth/witchy-appropriate.