How does this spell play out?


Pathfinder Society

Dark Archive 2/5

This may be a dumb question, but I am going to ask it anyway just so that I can be clear on how things work.

I was playing

Scenario Name:
#28: Lyrics of Extinction
tonight with my 10th level Arcane Trickster.

In the last encounter my character and another character got hit by the Song of Discord spell. The other character is a Wizard, who on his next turn attempted to cast the Feeblemind spell. He rolled for the effect of the Song of Discord and had to target the closest ally, which was my character.

The spell text states the following:

Quote:
The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind.

The Organized Play Guide states the following:

Quote:
Any spell cast by a PC during the course of a scenario that is still active at the end of a scenario ends when the scenario does. For example, if your cleric PC casts bless on the party and bless is still active when the scenario ends, the bless spell ends at the conclusion of the scenario. This includes spells with an instantaneous or permanent duration, such as continual flame, create undead, or fabricate.

I have two questions:

1) Do I need to buy off the effect of the spell, or does the effect end as is stated in the Organized Play guide?
2) Can I use Prestige Points to buy it off, and if so how many would it cost?

I know that I can buy a scroll of heal for 1650 gold pieces, but I would rather use PP for this assuming that I even need to worry about it.

Thanks.

The Exchange 3/5

Hit with Feeblemind? Ouch.

I think your character joins the Aspis Consortium.

Sorry, buddy. The Living Aspis Consortium messageboards are where you get sand everywhere...and I mean *everywhere*.

Good thing though is that you get to hang with your intellectual equals: goblins, brown mold, care baird, etc.

-Pain

Shadow Lodge 1/5 Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

dkeester wrote:

This may be a dumb question, but I am going to ask it anyway just so that I can be clear on how things work.

I was playing ** spoiler omitted ** tonight with my 10th level Arcane Trickster.

In the last encounter my character and another character got hit by the Song of Discord spell. The other character is a Wizard, who on his next turn attempted to cast the Feeblemind spell. He rolled for the effect of the Song of Discord and had to target the closest ally, which was my character.

The spell text states the following:

Quote:
The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind.

The Organized Play Guide states the following:

Quote:
Any spell cast by a PC during the course of a scenario that is still active at the end of a scenario ends when the scenario does. For example, if your cleric PC casts bless on the party and bless is still active when the scenario ends, the bless spell ends at the conclusion of the scenario. This includes spells with an instantaneous or permanent duration, such as continual flame, create undead, or fabricate.

I have two questions:

1) Do I need to buy off the effect of the spell, or does the effect end as is stated in the Organized Play guide?
2) Can I use Prestige Points to buy it off, and if so how many would it cost?

I know that I can buy a scroll of heal for 1650 gold pieces, but I would rather use PP for this assuming that I even need to worry about it.

Thanks.

None of the spells you need are on the list of spells you can spend PP on, so I don't think you can use PP in this case.

That said, as long as you're in town, you could just pay a cleric to cast heal on you. It'd only be 660, IIRC, which is way cheaper than the scroll.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

The way I understand the Organized Play rules to work, the permanent conditions imposed by PC spells end at the end of the scenario. There's no suggestion of "but only if you like them".

No Heal spell is necessary.

Dark Archive

Chris Mortika wrote:

The way I understand the Organized Play rules to work, the permanent conditions imposed by PC spells end at the end of the scenario. There's no suggestion of "but only if you like them".

No Heal spell is necessary.

A very interesting distinction... So if my fellow PC gets dominated or what have you and feeble minds, turns me to stone, or a toad, etc, the effect ends at the end of the scenario. But if the same effect was cast upon my character by a stated enemy, it would be permanent and require the expenditure of resources to remove.

That just sounds like crazy talk! If resources are required to remove conditions caused by enemies, they should also be required to be expended for conditions the enemy caused my ally to inflict upon my character.

Is this really RAW?

4/5 ****

Yes, at the moment spells cast by NPCs can persist beyond a scenario while spells cast be PCs cannot. This will likely be clarified in 4.2 and the campaign staff has indicated that the rules are not working as desired currently.

2/5 *

Chris Mortika wrote:

The way I understand the Organized Play rules to work, the permanent conditions imposed by PC spells end at the end of the scenario. There's no suggestion of "but only if you like them".

No Heal spell is necessary.

+1

The Exchange 5/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

ha!
say my PC pays to have Continual Flame cast by his local temple... on his sword say.
Does it continue past the end of the scenario?

or my PC dominates an enemy cleric, and get's HIM to cast Continual Flame on my PCs sword.
Does it continue past the end of the scenario?

or my PC casts his own Continual Flame (which is what I am currently doing each time I play my Cleric)...
Does it continue past the end of the scenario?
(this answer is no. I know this one).

An Enemy Cleric dominates my Cleric and get's my PC to cast Continual Flame on... oh, my mule.
Does it continue past the end of the scenario?

(you know what I'd have then don't you? a Flaming A... Mule);)

4/5 ****

It's very simple:

At the moment continual flame cast by a PC expires.
Continual flame cast by an NPC does not.

Being dominated or not is irreverent.

The Exchange 5/5

Pirate Rob wrote:

It's very simple:

At the moment continual flame cast by a PC expires.
Continual flame cast by an NPC does not.

Being dominated or not is irreverent.

I have been told that also if you pay to have it cast on something, then it also expires at the end of the scenerio.

that means you can't have a 3rd level (devine caster) Continual Flame, unless you get it at the start of the adventure each game.

Dark Archive 2/5

Thanks for the replies guys! I really appreciate it.

So far my VC is saying that I would have to spend the 660 GP. However, that was before the spell expiration rule was brought up.

I will see what his official ruling is.

I would also like to hear what Mike Brock or one of the other higher-ups has to say about this.

The complication that I see is the Song of Discord, which was cast by an NPC. That spell was the start of a chain reaction which ended with my character becoming feebleminded. The PC caster of the Feeblemind wanted to target the NPC bad guy, not my character.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Feeblemind was cast by a PC. All spells cast by PC's end at the end of a scenario. Thus, Feeblemind goes away. Its just that simple.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

No PVP. The PC didn't cast it on their own free will. Once the bad guy takes over the PC, then the GM made the decision what to do with the PC. If the player didn't do it, then the bad guys did. Therefore I would think you would have to resolve it.

But you could argue that either way.

Dark Archive 2/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I have been discussing this here, on a private email list, and with a few other people IRL. I have also been thinking about it long and hard over the GenghisCon convention weekend. I have finally come to a conclusion.

The rules state that the effect ends because it was cast by a PC. That is fine, but it doesn't sit well with me as a player.

So, I am going to pay the 660 GP to buy off the spell effect. I know that I don't have to, but it makes more sense to me that I do this. The disconnect between ongoing spell effects as cast by an NPC versus those cast by a PC don't make much sense to me. I guess it fits with the "no PvP" rule, but it is still not quite right. For roleplaying reasons I am spending the gold. I just don't feel right taking advantage of a rules loophole to save a few hundred gold pieces.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Grand Lodge 4/5

dkeester wrote:

I have been discussing this here, on a private email list, and with a few other people IRL. I have also been thinking about it long and hard over the GenghisCon convention weekend. I have finally come to a conclusion.

The rules state that the effect ends because it was cast by a PC. That is fine, but it doesn't sit well with me as a player.

So, I am going to pay the 660 GP to buy off the spell effect. I know that I don't have to, but it makes more sense to me that I do this. The disconnect between ongoing spell effects as cast by an NPC versus those cast by a PC don't make much sense to me. I guess it fits with the "no PvP" rule, but it is still not quite right. For roleplaying reasons I am spending the gold. I just don't feel right taking advantage of a rules loophole to save a few hundred gold pieces.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Mark and I are looking into spells ending at the end of scenarios, permanency, and other such issues to be addressed in Guide 4.2.

Scarab Sages

dkeester wrote:
... I am going to pay the 660 GP to buy off the spell effect. I know that I don't have to, but it makes more sense to me that I do this. ... For roleplaying reasons I am spending the gold. I just don't feel right taking advantage of a rules loophole to save a few hundred gold pieces.

Kudos, sir. A rarity, to be certain. You are to be congratulated for doing what you consider right, regardless of inconvenience. Good form. It is rather virtuous.

Wait ... You're a paladin, aren't you?

The Exchange 5/5

W. Kristoph Nolen wrote:
dkeester wrote:
... I am going to pay the 660 GP to buy off the spell effect. I know that I don't have to, but it makes more sense to me that I do this. ... For roleplaying reasons I am spending the gold. I just don't feel right taking advantage of a rules loophole to save a few hundred gold pieces.

Kudos, sir. A rarity, to be certain. You are to be congratulated for doing what you consider right, regardless of inconvenience. Good form. It is rather virtuous.

Wait ... You're a paladin, aren't you?

My guess would be Hellknight. Gotta be a lawful Hellknight.

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