Can a Barbarian use Combat Expertise while raging?


Rules Questions


I've been unable to really find anything that says they can't.

My GM and I were discussing it and he initially thought Barbarians should not be able to, since it is a feat with an Intelligence prereq and, to his mind, suggested a more measured and intellectual approach to combat. My perspective was that - with my character at least - that the 'Rage' was actually a sort of trance, one that focused his mind and body, and that while non-combat skills and abilities would certainly be unavailable, anything that enhanced combat directly should be permitted.

Thoughts?

Liberty's Edge

They can.


It's very much open to DM and/or player interpretation. Per the RAW, it's decidely vague, but only because the blurb describing barbarian rage is equally so. To quote,

"While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration."

Does your GM consider the utilization of combat expertise to require patience and consideration? If so, then the barbarian can't do it. The best advice anyone can give is to do what you, as a group, deem best. Come to an amicable conclusion.

I have to say that, personally, I find using the ability to be somewhat against the spirit of the barbarian (and see few reasons why you'd want to, generally speaking), and also don't think it makes sense thematically. my view of combat expertise has always been a measure, patient, intelligent, and concentrated defense. A mental mapping out of attack and defense strategies, similar to a rather deadly game of chess. If that's how you view a defensive combat, then, no, the barbarian wouldn't be able to do it.


How terribly annoying. I can't seem to edit my post to fix grammar or spelling. Please excuse the lack of accuracy on both. -_-


Brogue The Rogue wrote:
How terribly annoying. I can't seem to edit my post to fix grammar or spelling. Please excuse the lack of accuracy on both. -_-

I think we'll survive the errors. :-P

I've never been one to shy away from taking a mechanic and essentially giving it a new name, a different flavor... I have an Oath of Vengeance Paladin with the Eldritch Heritage feats following the Orc Bloodline. When he uses Touch of Rage its not RP'ed as something from a mystical orcish bloodline but rather invigorating an ally with the same divine power that fuels my Oath. A momentary divine conscription you might say, and orcs never come into it.

In this particular instance I view the 'Rage' more of a combat trance that focuses the mind (Will saves) and Body (Strength and Constitution bonuses) to the exclusion of all else. Viewed in that vein, Combat Expertise would fit right in.

Rather than start another thread, perhaps you can answer a combat mechanics question - If you use the feat Standstill with a reach weapon successfully, will that prevent a foe from closing to an adjacent square (and therefor preventing them from being able to attack unless they have reach themselves)?

Dark Archive

Combat Expertise:
You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy.

Prerequisite: Int 13.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the dodge bonus increases by +1. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects of this feat last until your next turn.

I see nothing there that indicates patience or concentration is used. You increase your defence at the expense of your accuracy. Barbarians have a rage power that increases their defence as well. Are they not allowed to use that while they're raging because they're raging?


In 3.5 it was expressly prohibited under Rage. The restriction was removed in PF.


I found this very helpfuk for my barbarin maad dohg rager thank! ^_^

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