okay I have already had a thread about what my template should be but this thread is about me not being a power gamer , or a rule breaker I would like you to make sure i am running my "lizard man" fighter correctly.
A few things you should know
1. I was house ruled reincarnated so my first level is basically a fighter minus all the feats, extra abilities just the BAB Skills and Saves.
my character is below
Ayo Mwangi Mauler
level 1 Troglodyte/Level 5 Unarmed fighter
hp 63
STR 18
Dex 14 -2 from my troglodyte body
CON 20 (16+4) form my Troglodyte body
INT 13
Wis 12
Char 14
AC 24 (10) base (+5 Mithrial chain shirt+1) +2 Dex +7 natural armor (+6 Troglodyte +1 amulet natural armor)
Touch AC 13 Flatfooted is 22
BAB 6/1
CMB 9 (6+3) 11 imp grapple
CMD 21 (6+3+2+2+10)
Attacks
1. Punch
14/9 (BAB +6 STR+4 Weapon focus +1 Weapon training +1 Dragon ferocity 1/2 str +2)
damage 1d8(monks robe) +7 (4 str +2 weapon Spec 1 Weapon Training.) I can bump it up to 1d8+10 for my first attack using Dragon style
Claw X2
I have 2 claw attacks had a Troglodyte at 1d4
11/6 ( 6 bab +4 str + 1 weapons training) 11/6
1d4+5 (str+4 1+ weapon training)
Bite
11/6
1d4+5
To the best of my knowledge I can attack with my punch twice If I take a full round action then if I so choose i can take a -5 to each Natural attack to also attack?
If i wanted to just claw /claw bite during a full Round Action
is is
1claw +11/+6 2 claw+11/+6
then bite 11/6
and I roll 5d4’s?
I am trying to stay away from making Natural Attacks because my character thinks he is a monster( think Kramer) and doesn’t like that new part of him.
EDIT:
Also if i wanted to go full natural attack I could take Improved natural attack (Claw) and feral combat training (claws) and then eldritch claws correct?
then would the 1d8 from my monks robe work with the claws ?
That's the question I wake up with every morning...
Lately that makes two of us gorbz!
You got the stink down pat. The rest is fluff.
feats are as follows:
1. Toughness
2. Improved Unarmed, dragon style
3.Weapon focus (Unarmed Strike)
4.Dragon Ferocity
5.Weapon Spec (unarmed strike)
6. Improved Grapple
7.Great Fortitude (Troglodyte Feat)
I was more interested in if I was making my attacks correctly I feel guilty for being able to attack 6 times a round.
You don't get more attacks with natural weapons for having a high BAB. If you have two claws at +6, then you get two attacks. If you have two claws at +20, then you get two attacks. It's not like attacks with regular weapons.
Secondly, you can't use the same limb to make a natural weapon attack and a regular weapon attack. It's up to your GM how this plays out with unarmed strikes, but assuming he lets you both claw and unarmed strike then you'd have attacks as follows:
Unarmed strike +6/+1, Claw +1, Claw +1
The unarmed strikes would be at full Strength damage, the claws would be at half strength. If you were to add a bite, then it'd be the same as another claw - one attack (at BAB-5), and half strength to damage.
You don't get more attacks with natural weapons for having a high BAB. If you have two claws at +6, then you get two attacks. If you have two claws at +20, then you get two attacks. It's not like attacks with regular weapons.
Secondly, you can't use the same limb to make a natural weapon attack and a regular weapon attack. It's up to your GM how this plays out with unarmed strikes, but assuming he lets you both claw and unarmed strike then you'd have attacks as follows:
Unarmed strike +6/+1, Claw +1, Claw +1
The unarmed strikes would be at full Strength damage, the claws would be at half strength. If you were to add a bite, then it'd be the same as another claw - one attack (at BAB-5), and half strength to damage.
just wanted to make sure I was iterating that I get 2 claw and a bite as part of my template. so they aren't secondary attacks, they are primary, and has the multiple BAB I was confused my this line here in the PRD
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal).
****You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack****** what the hell does this mean?
(as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.
Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
I am going "either or" in this case only Punch or only claw claw bite I am not mixing the 2.
what I wanted to know is what if I wanted to? I have never had natural attacks before except for my incredible good looks ...It is a blessing and a curse
I'm not quite sure I followed that. It'd be easier to tell what you're getting at if you use [ quote] tags or bold the quotes, or something.
As for what the starred line means, it's what I was referring to above. Whatever the template says you get is the total number of natural attacks you get. You never get more of them for having a high BAB. If you have two claws and a bite, your full attack always consists of two claws and a bite, not two attacks with each claw and two attacks with a bite. If you suddenly grow horns, you now get two claws, a bite, and horns. Even if you're at first level. Or even if you're at 20th level. Two claws, a bite, and horns.
All those attacks are primary, which means they're all made at full BAB. If you want to mix in unarmed strikes or weapon attacks, they all become secondary and you get your normal iterative attacks with no penalty.
I'm not quite sure I followed that. It'd be easier to tell what you're getting at if you use [ quote] tags or bold the quotes, or something.
As for what the starred line means, it's what I was referring to above. Whatever the template says you get is the total number of natural attacks you get. You never get more of them for having a high BAB. If you have two claws and a bite, your full attack always consists of two claws and a bite, not two attacks with each claw and two attacks with a bite. If you suddenly grow horns, you now get two claws, a bite, and horns. Even if you're at first level. Or even if you're at 20th level. Two claws, a bite, and horns.
All those attacks are primary, which means they're all made at full BAB. If you want to mix in unarmed strikes or weapon attacks, they all become secondary and you get your normal iterative attacks with no penalty.
BOBSON,
I am sorry I realized right after I wrote that that it sounded like a Nicholas sparks novel.
I have a few basic questions I think you have answered most them
1.IF I full round action with my Natural Attacks what is my to hit do I get multiple attacks. the reason ask is because the PRD says this "You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks"). so I can claw with my feet? then?
2. If I take feral combat training I can apply my monks robe damage to my Claws,
3. IF I want to do both unarmed and natural attacks I can kick, kick
then claw claw and bite but at -5, but if I take a feat multi attack it reduces the penalty to -2
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I'm not quite sure I followed that. It'd be easier to tell what you're getting at if you use [ quote] tags or bold the quotes, or something.
As for what the starred line means, it's what I was referring to above. Whatever the template says you get is the total number of natural attacks you get. You never get more of them for having a high BAB. If you have two claws and a bite, your full attack always consists of two claws and a bite, not two attacks with each claw and two attacks with a bite. If you suddenly grow horns, you now get two claws, a bite, and horns. Even if you're at first level. Or even if you're at 20th level. Two claws, a bite, and horns.
All those attacks are primary, which means they're all made at full BAB. If you want to mix in unarmed strikes or weapon attacks, they all become secondary and you get your normal iterative attacks with no penalty.
BOBSON,
I am sorry I realized right after I wrote that that it sounded like a Nicholas sparks novel.
I have a few basic questions I think you have answered most them
1.IF I full round action with my Natural Attacks what is my to hit do I get multiple attacks. the reason ask is because the PRD says this "You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks"). so I can claw with my feet? then?
2. If I take feral combat training I can apply my monks robe damage to my Claws,
3. IF I want to do both unarmed and natural attacks I can kick, kick
then claw claw and bite but at -5, but if I take a feat multi attack it reduces the penalty to -2
1. If you only use your natural attacks then your to-hit will be your current BaB + strength mod on each. As for clawing with your feet IF there are claws actually on your feet and IF your GM rules that you can (most GM's tend to rule no on that by the way) then sure.
As for multiple attacks the answer is no. You get to Claw/Claw/Bite and you will never get another claw or bite unless a spell (like Haste) grants you an additional attack.2. Your monks robe would REPLACE whatever damage the natural attack you augmented with Feral Combat Training.
Ie, if you chose your claws they would change from a D4 to a D6 while wearing the robe.
3. the kicks would be at Bab and Bab-5 (like normal iterative attacks and you only get the 2nd kick at Bab 6 and above).
Each of the natural attacks would be at Bab-5 and would only do half TOTAL damage.
With multi-attack they would all be at Bab -2 but still only half total damage.
Ie, at your current Bab of 5, you would get 1 Kick at +10 to hit & 1D4 +6 Damage; 2 Claws at +4 & 1D4+2 damage and a Bite at +4 & 1D4+2 damage.
2. Your monks robe would REPLACE whatever damage the natural attack you augmented with Feral Combat Training.
Ie, if you chose your claws they would change from a D4 to a D6 while wearing the robe.
Actually, the Monk's robe would have no effect on the claws, even with the feat.
While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
If the wearer has levels in monk, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher... If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-Level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC).
The robe increases your monk level. Monk level gives you a certain die size for your unarmed strike. That's not an "effect that augments" it - it's the definition for a monk. The alternative would be to say that a monk (with the feat) does his unarmed damage for every attack he makes with the selected natural weapon, which definitely not the intent of the feat (or else it would specifically say that).
What it does mean is that your claws would count as lawful (if you were a 4th level monk), and similar things.
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Well Bobson, that's where we disagree.
Unarmed strikes have a default value (1D3) for everyone who uses them however monks receive a special modifier ability to their unarmed strikes that changes that value.
Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Feral Combat training as written specifically states that anything that affects your unarmed strike affects your natural attacks.
Now is the monk ability that improves their unarmed strikes (which has it's own entry and special rules in the description) and lets them do things that the default unarmed strike cannot do not an effect?If so then by the rules of feral combat training the monks robe applies to the claws.
If it isn't an effect then what is it?
What he Said.
Oh and one last thing, we are not talking about the monk ability in this specific case we are talking about a magic item that gives the wearer special abilities and augments their existing unarmed strike.
Actually, we are talking about the monk ability, because all the belt does is give you the unarmed damage of a 5th level monk. So if a 5th level monk's unarmed damage applies to claws (with FCT), then the belt gives that to you, but if it doesn't, then it doesn't. (Source: "If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-Level monk")
As for whether that ability applies, I don't have an answer I think you'll accept. My argument boils down to "It makes no sense." Consider: An unarmed strike for a medium creature starts at 1d3. A claw for a medium creature starts at 1d4. A gore attack for a medium creature starts at 1d6. Many things that grant natural attacks give them at 1d6 for the claws and 1d8 for the gore. How would you apply a monk's increased damage for his unarmed strike to these? Would you say that they all go to 1d6 for a 1st level monk and 1d8 for a 5th? That'd be useless in some cases, and depowering in others! Would you apply the equivalent step-up in damage? A 1d3 -> 1d8 is 3 steps. That'd make the 1d8 gore attack into a 4d6 attack!
Either of those two scenarios would make the FCT/monk's belt combo a must-have for dragon-blooded sorcerers, barbarians that gain natural attacks while raging, etc. It gets even more absurd, though, when you consider what a druid can do with it...
The other aspect to "It makes no sense" is that it makes no sense for such a huge ability (natural attack damage improved based on your monk level) to not be explicitly called out in the feat, with appropriate clarifications and qualifiers. It's not like the developers didn't have monks in mind when designing the feat.
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In answer to your other question, of "If it isn't an effect then what is it?", my answer is that it's a class ability. It redefines your unarmed strike. Things like "Your unarmed strikes bypass DR/adamantine" are effects that augment it. They add on top of what's there. The monk's damage replaces it.
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Bobson, the difference between all of those options is FCT only affects the single natural weapon you choose. It's an upgrade roughly equal to the improved natural attack feat with the only exception that it works better for pure monks.
Also SKR just put up a new Faq on how FCT interacts with monks and their FoB which is pretty relevant to this argument.
Roughly put a natural weapon used during a FoB takes the place of one of the standard attacks from FoB and does the same damage as any other hit in FoB as well. Pretty much exactly what we are talking about here.
Bobson, the difference between all of those options is FCT only affects the single natural weapon you choose. It's an upgrade roughly equal to the improved natural attack feat with the only exception that it works better for pure monks.
You'll notice I only cited one natural weapon for each example. And it's far, far worse than INA unless you also have a monk's robe, in which case it's better by a variable amount depending on how much damage you did with your natural weapon to begin with. That's why I dislike it.
Also SKR just put up a new Faq on how FCT interacts with monks and their FoB which is pretty relevant to this argument.
Roughly put a natural weapon used during a FoB takes the place of one of the standard attacks from FoB and does the same damage as any other hit in FoB as well. Pretty much exactly what we are talking about here.
Got a link? I don't see it.
Aqui!
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ld4f?Revenge-of-the-FAQ-Attack
Thanks! I checked the FAQ page earlier, but I didn't check for a new blog post at that point. Yay for SKR and actually getting FAQs answered!
For reference:
What does “with” in the Special line for the Feral Combat Training feat (Ultimate Combat, page 101) mean for monks making a flurry of blows?
Normally a monk who has natural attacks (such as a lizardfolk monk with claw attacks) cannot use those natural attacks as part of a flurry of blows (Core Rulebook 57). Feral Combat Training allows you to use the selected natural attack as if it were a monk weapon—you can use it as one of your flurry of blows attacks, use it to deploy special attacks that require you to use a monk weapon, apply the effects of the natural weapon (such as a poisonous bite) for each flurry of blows attack, and so on.
The feat does not allow you to make your normal flurry of blows attack sequence plus one or more natural attacks with the natural weapon. In other words, if you can flurry for four attacks per round, with this feat you still only make four attacks per round... but any number of those attacks may be with the selected natural weapon.
To Mathwei: There's nothing in here about using the unarmed damage for the natural weapon used in a flurry. In fact, it's implicitly excluded, because it's used "as if it were a monk weapon" and each monk weapon has its own damage amount which has nothing to do with your unarmed attack.