Cavalier / Fighter questions

[DBlue]

So, I'm looking at making a cavalier/fighter using the gendarme and dragoon archetypes respectively.

Two questions:

One, the gendarme states:

Bonus Feats: A gendarme trains to be a mounted terror, almost to the exclusion of all other abilities. He gains bonus feats at 1st level, 5th level, and then every three levels thereafter, but must select these bonus feats from the following list: Improved Bull Rush, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Spring Attack, and Unseat. If the gendarme has already selected all of the listed feats, then he may select his bonus feats from those feats listed as combat feats. This ability replaces tactician, greater tactician, master tactician, and the standard cavalier's selection of bonus feats.

What happens if you have selected all feats you have prerequisites for? IE, you have everything but spring attack, but don't have the prerequisites for spring attack? Or are prerequisites ignored?

Two, I'm a bit confused on how the dragoon and cavalier banner bonuses interact.

Banner (Ex): At 9th level, a dragoon may attach a banner to his lance. This is identical to the cavalier class feature. The bonuses provided by the dragoon's banner increase by +1 for every five levels beyond 9th (to a maximum of +3 at 19th level). Cavalier levels stack with his dragoon level for determining the effect of his banner, and he can take the better banner progression. This ability replaces weapon training 2, 3, and 4.

So, they stack. At what point do they start stacking? Would they only start stacking once I have 9 levels of dragoon? Would 1 level of cavalier let me use the better banner progression?

Thanks in advance!

[Paul Watson]

DBLue,
1) I don't beleive so. I think in that case, you're out of luck. Talk to your GM about itm but I'd try to avoid that situation.

2) You add the levels of Dragoon and Cavalier together then look at the Cavalier and Dragoon banners at the combined level and take whichever bonus is better. Generally, this will be the cavalier's.

[ShadowcatX]

1) RAW, you would be out of luck. I don't see why spring attack is in that list, it seems vastly out of place.

2) They will only stack once you've got the 9th level Dragoon ability. And as written 1 level of cavalier does seem to allow you to use the better progression, which is odd, most other times you have to have enough levels in the class to activate the ability.

[Sangalor]

I tend to agree with the previous posters, according to RAW you are out of luck IMO. Gendarme states that it changes the "selection of bonus feats", not the bonus feats feature, so you must meet prerequisites. The list is pretty small for that purpose though. So I think that they either forgot to mention that you do not need to meet the prerequisites, or that the spring attack feat is an error.

It could be on the list even if you could never take it with the class by itself though. Look at the internal alchemist archetype of the alchemist: You can gain the extra ki feat there instead of a discovery. This, I read somewhere, was meant to support multiclassing, so you could improve another class that has this feature.
It might be intended the same way here, but then having to have ALL feats from this list before you may choose another combat feat kind of defeats that purpose.

I would say assume that feat is an error, remove it and you are fine :-)

[Davick]

Were I DM, I'd add dodge and mobility to the list of bonus feats.

[Starglim]

Davick wrote:

Were I DM, I'd add dodge and mobility to the list of bonus feats.

Were I DM, I'd remove Spring Attack from the Gendarme list. This would benefit players, as they could begin taking combat feats of their choice earlier (including Spring Attack, if they qualify for it, which I agree as written they have to do anyway).

[DBlue]

Yeah, the spring attack in that list just makes no sense thematically. If I hit that limit, I'll probably just swap back to dragoon. Actually, it looks like 8 levels of gendarme gets me everything I want, including all feats from that list except unseat and spring attack. On the other hand, 4 levels of gendarme gets me everything I need.

Tentative build is Dragoon 1/Gendarme 8/Dragoon X. Or maybe a Dragoon 1/Gendarme 4/Dragoon X.

Banner makes a little more sense now, but the wording is still awkward.

Thanks guys.