Just curious what folks out there think. For what it's worth, IMO, let's keep the edition we've got for as long as possible.
I'm so tired of edition changes. Just burned out on them, really. And, with PF, I've got a huge investment in this version of the game, with all the rulebooks, modules, APs, etc. And, I've put a lot of time & effort into personal tools, like tweaks to the PF framework for Maptool, Herolab files, etc.
The thought of having to re-do and repurchase all that stuff makes me shudder. And, for any of you out there that are raring to go with a 2nd edition, I can hear objections already:
1) just keep playing the game you've got ... there's nobody forcing you to upgrade (my answer to that: the biggest pool of players are probably gonna come from the latest edition of a game)
2) you can still use the old stuff, just tweak it to convert it (and my answer to that: I wish I had the time!)
PF 1st edition rocks, it plays well, it's fun ... let's keep it till my great-grandkids are old.
It has been asked before. The Paizo response is that, in all likelihood, there will be a second edition someday. However, that "someday" is probably five years away or more. Paizo is tired of edition changes and making people rebuy books, too.
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Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.
It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
Monks are OP
Woah, MONKS are OP?
Paladin Alignment
Need one to reset the rhythm? I'm sure I can think up something nice and interesting for an OP.
Didn't this thread just happen about 2 weeks ago?
edit:ninja'd by TOZ
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Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
If the threads get off alignment the negative energy pools up instead of flowing out through the open windows and doors the way it should. I remember when a 2E thread popped up next a Fighters Suck thread, the forums were in a funk for weeks.
If the threads get off alignment the negative energy pools up instead of flowing out through the open windows and doors the way it should. I remember when a 2E thread popped up next a Fighters Suck thread, the forums were in a funk for weeks.Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
Whew I'm glad I was Playing a RPG that day.
I personally think we should get a jump on speculating about when and what will be involved with PF 3rd edition or maybe 4th. Since they've already admitted to the second edition in a couple of years.
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Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
You forgot:
James Jacobs, is this true: 2+2=4? ANSWER NOW!
Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
Don't forget the occasional 'Psionics are awesome/terrible' thread. I feel like my week is empty until I read one of these.
Man, we weren't due for another one of these for at least a month.
I'm sorry ... My attendance on these boards tends to be sporadic. But, it's good to know that it we've got a few years at least.
I really am so sick of edition changes.
And the 'Oriental influenced classes and gunslingers don't belong in a fantasy setting'
Luckily, with Ultimate Combat out, those kind of threads have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Admittedly, my only reason for wanting Paizo to do Psionics is just to make people shut up about it.
ziltmilt, I wouldn't worry about it. Paizo's been doing pretty well in sales compared to WotC's DnD so I don't see a Second Edition coming out anytime soon. That said, if they did come out with the core rulebook that had some rule cleanups or even just a couple of minor changes to bring some abilities in line with others, I'd be okay with that. But really, that's more in the realm of errata than new edition.
I find that picking one edition and sticking with it solves that problem. :)
Yes, but it makes other problems. Your potential pool of fellow players is decreased and dwindles every year that passes after a game's new edition game out.
For example, I can never find an opponent to play my favorite all-time game, since Chess 2.0 was published.
PF 2e: no. I came to PF SPECIFICALLY because that "other" game I was playing was broken in 3.5 and rather than fix it they cut and ran giving me the choice of re-spending some of the daughters' college fund or trying to patch the version I was in on my own. I STILL feel justified in choosing option "c" in PF - Thanks Paizo!
Monks = OP: no. I've never played one but I've given a couple levels to a kobold to spice up an encounter - it was horrifying. Kobold parts went everywhere. I've also seen another GM run one as an NPC - he was great right up until he had to attack (mid level, no permanent magic fang or Am of Mghty Fists yet); it was unimpressive. I wouldn't say their underpowered either - just another choice.
Thread feng shui: Calm yourself Yago. Close your eyes; breathe. Soon cynical builders will realize how awesome/terrible paladins are for whatever reason and you'll open your eyes. Here, take a cookie: I promise by the time you're done with it you'll have forgotten all about this 2nd edition crap. You're in charge of your own threads right? By the time you walk out that door, everything'll be right as rain...
Don't forget the occasional 'Psionics are awesome/terrible' thread. I feel like my week is empty until I read one of these.
Heck, substitute any of "high-level play," "martial classes," "rogues" or any random sourcebook in there and you've got it covered.
Invariably followed by "No way, X is awesome."
I'm with TOZ though; it is rather early for another "Pathfinder 2E" thread.
Don't forget the occasional 'Psionics are awesome/terrible' thread. I feel like my week is empty until I read one of these.Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
We haven't had a Erastil is sexist thread for a while.
There is a - all male gamers are basement dwelling Cheeto eating mountain dew swilling socially craptactular paternalistic mysogonistic A-hats thread going in the OT forums.
There is a - all male gamers are basement dwelling Cheeto eating mountain dew swilling socially craptactular paternalistic mysogonistic A-hats thread going in the OT forums.
Though to be fair, such sentiments are being spread by someone claiming to be of that description/demographic.
Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
So when do you think we're due for another "Why is Necromancy Evil?" thread?
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Admittedly, my only reason for wanting Paizo to do Psionics is just to make people shut up about it.
To be honest, given Paizo's apparent apathy towards psionics, I'd be surprised if their "psionics system" amounted to anything more than a new Sorcerer bloodline: Psionic. Bloodline powers would be that the sorcerer ignores all material, somatic, and verbal components, including focuses, regardless of cost.
Admittedly, my only reason for wanting Paizo to do Psionics is just to make people shut up about it.To be honest, given Paizo's apparent apathy towards psionics, I'd be surprised if their "psionics system" amounted to anything more than a new Sorcerer bloodline: Psionic. Bloodline powers would be that the sorcerer ignores all material, somatic, and verbal components, including focuses, regardless of cost.
Any psionic system that Paizo comes out with would also have to explain why no psionics are in evidence in the Inner Sea region. It's doable, but unless there's a darn good reason nobody's seen psionics before, it's going to feel kind of bolted on.
I guess psionics is the sort of thing that could be part of Pathfinder II. I'm just not in any hurry.
Any psionic system that Paizo comes out with would also have to explain why no psionics are in evidence in the Inner Sea region. It's doable, but unless there's a darn good reason nobody's seen psionics before, it's going to feel kind of bolted on.
I guess psionics is the sort of thing that could be part of Pathfinder II. I'm just not in any hurry.
I am not the biggest follower of golarion but it is my understanding that there are already psionic elements to the world.
From the pathfinder wiki:
"Psionics are a type of power capable of manipulating reality in a similar manner as magic. Many of the arcane and divine spellcasters on Golarion look down on psionics and treat it with suspicion, fear, and even hatred.
On Golarion psionics are much rarer than magic however there are places in the world where one can find psionics being practiced in large quanities.
In the land of Vudra, where the idea of mind over matter is much stronger than other part of the world, psionics is treated with much more respect."
No bolting on required, psionics have been a part of golarion (if something of a footnote untill places like Vudra get more fleshed out) since 3.5.
Don't forget the occasional 'Psionics are awesome/terrible' thread. I feel like my week is empty until I read one of these.Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
We haven't had a Erastil is sexist thread for a while.
There is a - all male gamers are basement dwelling Cheeto eating mountain dew swilling socially craptactular paternalistic mysogonistic A-hats thread going in the OT forums.
I can't be one of those gamers.... because there are no basements in Florida!
Bazing! I'll be here all week folks.
Though to be fair, such sentiments are being spread by someone claiming to be of that description/demographic.
There is a - all male gamers are basement dwelling Cheeto eating mountain dew swilling socially craptactular paternalistic mysogonistic A-hats thread going in the OT forums.
The guy is just trying to look like a Sensitive New Age Gamer so he can get laid. He denied it in his follow up but me thinks he doth protest too much.
Male nerds are easy targets, for bullying and violence and self loathing a-hats who want to get their leg over by dumping on their brethren.
When the time is right, I will welcome a 2nd Ed. Paizo will need a 2nd Edition to stay afloat someday! Thats just how the business works. The typical lifetime of a specific edition of a RPG is about 5-10 years in my experience. I hope Pathfinder 1E will last a number of years near the higher end of that spectrum.
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I as well. Especially as Paizo gives the $10 option for "virtual" books, and they are well-supported by hero labs. Paizo has listened; unlike the 3.5 debacle they have not spammed the market too fast or rushed out editions. I actually wish it was sooner rather than later; there is some garbage left over from 3.5 that I wish they could throw out; and I'm certain they'd love to make high-level play fun for ALL players (and society-legal).
And I agree, there is a lot of self-loathing that is completely unnecessary in a lot of gamers. Part of the reason gamers are so great is their all-accepting attitude; let's not change on our own. Gamers were there when I WAS that overweight, girlless guy... having the social outlet and people that accepted me without judgement helped me get over that. Remember, those that are going to these games are at least getting out some and trying to get some social on; so please don't attack them :).
Game on, and be excited when they finally do a revision. As long as it's a few years down the road, you'll be ready for a new challenge anyway :). I do trust Paizo; they've (mostly) done a great job with their expansion books, and I hope they keep their policy of open playtest for 2.0.
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When the time is right, I will welcome a 2nd Ed. Paizo will need a 2nd Edition to stay afloat someday! Thats just how the business works. The typical lifetime of a specific edition of a RPG is about 5-10 years in my experience. I hope Pathfinder 1E will last a number of years near the higher end of that spectrum.
Considering that the current edition of Call of Cthulhu is essentially it's first edition with 3 skills and 2 spells changed, 30 years later, I'd vouch for the "must have a new edition" idea to be TSR/WotC moneygrab and not much else.
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Considering that the current edition of Call of Cthulhu is essentially it's first edition with 3 skills and 2 spells changed, 30 years later, I'd vouch for the "must have a new edition" idea to be TSR/WotC moneygrab and not much else.
Cthulhu also does straight damage now, instead of devouring a random number of investigators per round.
When the time is right, I will welcome a 2nd Ed. Paizo will need a 2nd Edition to stay afloat someday! Thats just how the business works. The typical lifetime of a specific edition of a RPG is about 5-10 years in my experience. I hope Pathfinder 1E will last a number of years near the higher end of that spectrum.Considering that the current edition of Call of Cthulhu is essentially it's first edition with 3 skills and 2 spells changed, 30 years later, I'd vouch for the "must have a new edition" idea to be TSR/WotC moneygrab and not much else.
Still, they are at edition no. 6 now.
Also, Chaosium publishes 1 or 2 CoC books per year, nobody makes a living from that. Do you want that for Pathfinder?
Yes, actually.
No. God, no. That would kill Paizo's adventure path business and sink the company, and Pathfinder with it.
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Kind of weird that gamers want quality products but feel it's "not gamer-like" to make a profit. I like that Paizo gives plenty of source to those who want to delve in, but only "require" one book per year or so as add-ons. And like the record business, they provide the PDFs themselves despite the lower profit at a cheap enough price to discourage people from making their own pirate copies; and even provide free upgrades as it changes.
Paizo has shown it is a VERY "good" company, and they deserve to make money. And again, I very much look forward to them eliminating so many of the "3.5 holdovers" that slow this game down and make high levels too much of a chore to be fun.
Yes, actually.
Why?
These boards would not exist any more.
The stellar customer support would vanish (no manpower).
No more APs.
Almost all the nice authors and creators at Paizo would have to look for new jobs.
You could just buy two books a year if thats enough for you and let the people who enjoy their AP every months, the many excellent modules, setting supplements and rules expansions buy as many books as they like.
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Kind of weird that gamers want quality products but feel it's "not gamer-like" to make a profit. I like that Paizo gives plenty of source to those who want to delve in, but only "require" one book per year or so as add-ons. And like the record business, they provide the PDFs themselves despite the lower profit at a cheap enough price to discourage people from making their own pirate copies; and even provide free upgrades as it changes.
Paizo has shown it is a VERY "good" company, and they deserve to make money. And again, I very much look forward to them eliminating so many of the "3.5 holdovers" that slow this game down and make high levels too much of a chore to be fun.
A lot of it isn't a trust issue honestly. Me? I love Paizo. They are the only company that I 100% like, from their business practices to their products. Other companies come in close (sorry Riot Games) but Paizo is my favorite company. I trust them to put out quality products and have never had an issue with them. Plus, the fact that they have everything Core for free on the SRD, making the entry into DnD so so cheap for new people, makes me love them even more. I'll keep giving them my money, new edition or not, because I know they will be good quality products.
That said, my personal reason for not wanting 2nd Edition Pathfinder is because I don't think it is necessary, especially so soon. I prefer Errata and FAQ to new editions. I'm a bit biased because I only read PDFs so I can update them for free, unlike people with printed copies. But, I think having gradual updates here and there to ease in new rules to old players is much better than a big change to the whole game.
If it came years from now, I'm sure most people would be okay with. Seeing how they handled the transition from 3.5 to Pathfinder with the conversion PDF gives me confidence that it will be done well. But right now, I'm just happy with the state of the game as it is.
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Yes, actually.No. God, no. That would kill Paizo's adventure path business and sink the company, and Pathfinder with it.
We must have different ideas what '2 books' means. I was not counting APs as they are not rule books.
Hyla, Do you have any evidence to back up your claims? Maybe a post by Vic or Lisa?
Edit: I should also mention that I used to have a charter subscriber tag or three. So I don't need an admonishment to only buy what I want.
Creative Director
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Nah, it's just, there's a rhythm to this, and it throws off my groove when things get twisted.
Fighters Suck
Monks are OP
Smite Evil is Evil
Rogues are Useless
Paladin Alignment
PF 2E
Roll-play vs. Role-play
Point-buy or Rolling
Edition War
etc etc.It's like forum feng shui, things got to be aligned right, y'know?
You forgot:
James Jacobs, is this true: 2+2=4? ANSWER NOW!
nope
It's 3. Check page 577.
James Jacobs, is this true: 2+2=4? ANSWER NOW!
nope
It's 3. Check page 577.
Ahh... the legendary rounding errors. Thank you Jacobs, I always get confused on where to round up. Hopefully this information will be more better placed in PF2.
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Yes, actually.No. God, no. That would kill Paizo's adventure path business and sink the company, and Pathfinder with it.
Can't speak for TOZ, but if they reduced the RPG line to 1-2 books per year, I think that would be plenty. By all means, continue to pump out adventures and Golarion supplements. But other than giving me more yummy monsters, there's very little that I really want out of the RPG line anymore...and of the things I do want, comments made by Paizo staff on these forums have make me pretty sure that they're unlikely to deliver.
Yes, actually.No. God, no. That would kill Paizo's adventure path business and sink the company, and Pathfinder with it.We must have different ideas what '2 books' means. I was not counting APs as they are not rule books.
Hyla, Do you have any evidence to back up your claims? Maybe a post by Vic or Lisa?
Edit: I should also mention that I used to have a charter subscriber tag or three. So I don't need an admonishment to only buy what I want.
A book is a book. If you for some reason only count rule expansions as books, then you have to say so.