So I've been running a homebrew campaign that I'm calling eberron 4040.
The premise is basically firefly level of tech but grown from the magictech steampunk of eberron.
In order to encourage the use of firearms I've applied several house rules.
1st firearms are martial weapons.
next the non-proficiency penalty for firearms (only) is not -4. Instead non-proficient users of firearms never target touch armor and the crit is reduced to 20/x2.
Basic firearms are all 25% market price, all ammo is 10% cost.
Also I've altered bayonets, they can be attached to any firearm, and the weapon can still be fired.
Finally bows are exceeding rare (read: expensive) and xbows are unheard of.
In addition I have created two "cheap" firearms. I call them cannith craft muskets.
The cannith long-musket is 1d6, 20' range. X2 crit, and only misfires on a 1.
the musket pistol is 10' range and 1d4.
But now I'm in the process of designing some exotic firearms. I'd like suggestions for others.
So far i have 3.
1 gunsword. Simple: revolver+ longsword= better bayonet.
2 shotgun-axe. Greataxe+shotgun. Simple
3 netgun: an advanced firearm. Two handed, essentially a net with a 10' range *increment*
TL:DR: i made a bunch of houserules to make guns better and bows worse. I want suggestions for more exotic firearms.
Thanks!
So I've been running a homebrew campaign that I'm calling eberron 4040.
The premise is basically firefly level of tech but grown from the magictech steampunk of eberron.In order to encourage the use of firearms I've applied several house rules.
1st firearms are martial weapons.
next the non-proficiency penalty for firearms (only) is not -4. Instead non-proficient users of firearms never target touch armor and the crit is reduced to 20/x2.Basic firearms are all 25% market price, all ammo is 10% cost.
Also I've altered bayonets, they can be attached to any firearm, and the weapon can still be fired.
Finally bows are exceeding rare (read: expensive) and xbows are unheard of.
In addition I have created two "cheap" firearms. I call them cannith craft muskets.
The cannith long-musket is 1d6, 20' range. X2 crit, and only misfires on a 1.
the musket pistol is 10' range and 1d4.But now I'm in the process of designing some exotic firearms. I'd like suggestions for others.
So far i have 3.
1 gunsword. Simple: revolver+ longsword= better bayonet.
2 shotgun-axe. Greataxe+shotgun. Simple
3 netgun: an advanced firearm. Two handed, essentially a net with a 10' range *increment*TL:DR: i made a bunch of houserules to make guns better and bows worse. I want suggestions for more exotic firearms.
Thanks!
If its supposed to be futuristic, they would've perfected rifling by then. Double the ranges on everything, or something like it.
I'd been thinking of my own steampunk game. Here's some of my own thoughts on advancement of technology for these weapons:
General Weapon Information (my added features)
Weapon Handedness: Ranged weapons are divided into Light, One-handed and Two-handed, exactly like melee weapons (for things like two weapon fighting).
Weapon Qualities: There are a number of new weapon qualities.
Container: A container weapon can be filled with a vial of alchemical solution, and deals the listed damage on the attack. The number listed indicates how many vials is needed to fill one container.
Damage: Some projectile ranged weapons can deal additional damage.
Weapons with the “strength” indicator allow dealing additional strength damage.
Weapons with the “mechanical” indicator deal additional damage without any additional requirements.
Weapons with the “fixed” indicator are created with a set amount of damage, and cannot be changed.
Weapons with the “minimum” indicator are weapons with a fixed strength damage bonus that can only be fired properly by those that have the Strength score that equals the bonus. Those without the adequate Strength score have a -4 penalty to fire the weapon.
Weapons with the “adjustable” indicator can set their damage after creation. A character can change the strength or mechanical bonus to damage with 1 minute of work and a Craft (bows and crossbows) or Knowledge (engineering) check, with a DC equal to 10 + the bonus damage. A character proficient with the weapon can instead use their base attack bonus plus Dexterity modifier instead of a craft check.
Entangle: Entangling weapons can be used to entangle or trip a target.
When making a trip attempt, roll a combat maneuver check. Ranged weapons use dexterity instead of strength modifier on the combat maneuver bonus. In addition to tripping the target, they are partially entangled, moving at only half speed and cannot charge or run.
When attempting to entangle a target, roll a touch attack (ranged or melee, depending on the weapon used). Success causes the entangled status, but does not cause the target to fall prone.
Entangling weapons that deal damage cause the listed damage on the initial attack as well as each round until they are removed.
The method of escaping the entangling weapon is listed in it's description.
Firearm: Firearms are classified in two major groups, current and precursor firearms. Each have their own unique qualities. All firearms require only Simple Weapon proficiency to not incur attack penalties. However, if a character does not have the Martial or Exotic weapon proficiency, the reload time is extended by one step. All firearms require two hands to reload. Two-handed firearms can be fired in one hand at a -4 penalty to attack, exactly like crossbows.
Current firearms use only metal cartridged ammunition, and require a move action to reload a single bullet, or a full round action to reload all chambers.
Precursor firearms are early era firearms that require front loading of propellant and the projectile. This means they require a full round action to reload. Also, precursor firearms are less accurate, having a -3 penalty on range increments, and prone to incomplete propellant burning (treated as having the frail quality).
A firearm with the “scatter” indicator can use pellet ammunition to create an area attack. The attack is either a cone or line, with a listed range. All creatures in the area take damage. A Reflex save (DC 10 plus half the base attack bonus plus dexterity modifier) can reduce the damage by half. If slug ammunition is used instead, the attack is normal against a single target.
A firearm with the “reinforced” indicator can negate the frail quality imposed by firing hot loaded ammunition.
Frail: A frail weapon has a critical part that can wear with time, or weather conditions. A natural roll of 1 on an attack roll with a frail weapon causes the compromised condition on the weapon.
Hidden: These weapons are smaller and more compact than normal, and designed to be hidden easily. Thy grant a +4 bonus to Stealth and Sleight of Hand checks to hide them.
Limited Space: A limited space weapon may be prohibited from being used in certain spaces or in certain ways. See the weapon description for the exact details on the restriction.
Short Range: A ranged weapon that has a short range can only go up to 6 increments (if it is a projectile weapon), or 3 increments (if thrown).
Splash: A splash weapon deals additional damage to foes near the point of contact, as well as usually dealing some form of alchemical-based damage.
Weapons that deal no damage on their own, deal the listed damage (with a critical of 20/x2) and use the target's touch AC. Weapons that deal damage normally add the damage listed on a successful normal attack.
Any creatures in the listed area range are dealt the splash damage equal to the minimum roll of the listed damage. A Reflex save DC is listed to reduce damage by half.
Ranged weapons that don't deal normal damage can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5, dealing only the area damage.
If you miss the target or grid, roll a 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with a 1 falling short of the target, and 2 through 8 rotating around the target in a clockwise direction. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. This determines the new square where it lands, dealing only the area damage to those nearby.
Item Conditions: A new condition, "compromised" is added.
Compromised: The item becomes unusable until fixed. The condition can be removed with the appropriate materials, and a DC 5 craft check (for the associated item). The check takes 2 rounds to complete once the materials are in hand. This time can be reduced to 1 round of work by increasing the DC to 10.
A character proficient with the weapon can roll their base attack bonus plus their dexterity modifier instead of a craft check.
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Weapon Statistics (firearms, bows, crossbows, and associated items only)
Simple Weapons
Crossbow, hand .. 1d4 .. 19-20/x2 .. 30ft .. - .. 1 ..
Flask .. - .. 0 .. 10ft .. - .. - .. container (1), splash (1d6, 5ft, DC 15)
Crossbow, light .. 1d8 .. 19-20/x2 .. 80ft .. - .. 1 ..
Crossbow, light (repeating) .. 1d8 .. 19-20/x2 .. 80ft .. - .. 5 ..
Crossbow, heavy .. 1d10 .. 19-20/x2 .. 120ft .. - .. 1 ..
Crossbow, heavy (repeating) .. 1d10 .. 19-20/x2 .. 120ft .. - .. 5 ..
Crossbow, launching .. - .. - .. 60ft .. - .. 1 .. ammunition: containers
Martial Weapons
Grenade .. - .. - .. 10ft .. P .. - .. container (3), splash (2d6, 10ft, DC 18)
Pistol .. 1d8 .. 19-20/x3 .. 50ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (current)
Pistol (double barrel) .. 1d8 .. 19-20/x3 .. 50ft .. - .. 2 .. firearm (current)
Pistol, hidden .. 1d4 .. 19-20/x3 .. 30ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (current, hidden, short range)
Pistol, hidden (double barrel) .. 1d4 .. 19-20/x3 .. 30ft .. - .. 2 .. firearm (current, hidden, short range)
Revolver .. 1d8 .. 19-20/x3 .. 50ft .. - .. 4 .. firearm (current)
Revolver (six shooter) .. 1d8 .. 19-20/x3 .. 50ft .. - .. 6 .. firearm (current)
Revolver, grapeshot .. 1d8/2d4 .. 19-20/x3 .. 50ft .. - .. 9 & 1 .. firearm (current, 1 shot scatter: 20ft cone)
Carbine, short .. 1d10 .. 19-20/x3 .. 70ft .. - .. 2 .. firearm (current, reinforced)
Pistol, dragon .. 3d4 .. x3 .. 15ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (current, scatter: 30ft line or 15ft cone)
Pistol, dragon (double barrel) .. 3d4 .. x3 .. 15ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (current, scatter: 30ft line)
Pepperbox .. 1d8 .. 19-20/x3 .. 50ft .. - .. 5 .. firearm (current)
Carbine, long .. 1d12 .. 19-20/x3 .. 90ft .. - .. 2 .. firearm (current, reinforced)
Rifle .. 1d20 .. 19-20/x3 .. 110ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (current, reinforced)
Shotgun .. 4d4 .. x3 .. 30ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (current, scatter: 60ft line or 30ft cone)
Shotgun (double barrel) .. 4d4 .. x3 .. 30ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (current, scatter: 60ft line)
Exotic Weapons
Bolas .. 1d4 .. x2 .. 10ft .. B .. - .. entangle, thrown
Bolas, bladewire .. 1d6 .. 19-20/x2 .. 10ft .. B&S .. - .. entangle (1d6 slashing), thrown
Hand-gunne .. 2d6 .. x4 .. 30ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (precursor)
Blunderbuss, short .. 4d4 .. x4 .. 10ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (precursor, scatter: 10ft cone)
Net .. - .. - .. 10ft .. - .. - .. entangle, short range, thrown
Net, barbed .. 1d4 .. x2 .. 10ft .. P .. - .. entangle (1d4 piercing), short range, thrown
Arquebuss .. 2d8 .. x4 .. 60ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (precursor)
Blunderbuss, long .. 5d4 .. x4 .. 20ft .. - .. 1 .. firearm (precursor, scatter: 20ft cone)
Composite bow .. 1d10 .. x3 .. 90ft .. - .. 1 .. frail, damage (strength, fixed)
Compound bow .. 1d10 .. x3 .. 120ft .. - .. 1 .. damage (mechanical, adjustable)
Flask launcher .. - .. - .. 80ft .. - .. 1 .. ammunition: containers
Longbow .. 1d12 .. x3 .. 100ft .. - .. 1 .. frail, limited space, damage (strength, fixed, minimum)
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Additional Items (including ammunition, tools, etc)
Ammunition
Arrow .. P ..
Arrow, blunt .. B ..
Arrow, loaded .. P .. container (1)
Arrow, torch .. P .. damage (1 fire)
Bolt .. P ..
Bolt, blunt .. B ..
Bolt, loaded .. P .. container (1)
Bolt, torch .. P .. damage (1 fire)
Bullet .. B&P ..
Bullet, hot loaded .. B&P .. damage (+2)
Bullet, sparker .. B&P .. damage (1 fire)
Shell, flare .. B&P .. damage (1 fire), scatter only, see text
Shell, pellet .. B&P .. scatter only
Shell, slug .. B&P .. scatter only
Shot, ball .. B&P ..
Shot, flare .. B&P .. damage (1 fire), scatter (2 per shot), see text
Shot, pellets .. B&P .. scatter only
Shot, slug .. B&P .. scatter only
Firearm Specific Items
Speed loader: A speed loader allows quicker reloading for a multi-chambered firearm that uses metal cartridges. It requires a full round action to load bullets onto an empty speed loader. Reloading a firearm with a speed loader takes a move action to reload all chambers. This can be made faster with abilities that increase the speed of reloading normally.
A speed loader can only be used if all chambers are empty. An individual speed loader is designed to work with a specific weapon, such as "Speed loader (revolver, six shooter)", etc.
Alchemical Sabot: An alchemical sabot is required to use a flask launcher. The item to be loaded into the launcher is inserted in one end of the sabot, and the sabot is struck. This sets off an alchemical reaction, hardening it and encasing the loaded item.
Firing the launcher disintegrates the sabot.
Dragon's Breath Sabot: This alchemical sabot is designed to shatter the item loaded, allowing any alchemical splash weapons to burst forth from a flask launcher in a 30ft cone effect instead.
It otherwise functions as a normal alchemical sabot for loading and disintegration.
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I made these rules up a while ago, but it is likely I won't be playing a steampunk game anytime soon.
I just hope you find some use out of this, at least to mine for ideas.
Wow, that's a lot of info. Thanks guys.
That said, it seems I wasn't clear enough in my OP.
I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel here.
With the exception of the above listed house rules and the addition of modified eberron races I'm using the pathfinder ruleset as is.
The purpose of this thread is to get ideas for unusual and interesting firearms.
Kaisoku's flask launcher is an excellent example. Ill be adding a modified version of it to my world.
The tech level of my campaign is not logically consistant with our world. All technology is based on magic, robotics (warforged), air travel, and space travel were all invented before gunpowder. The most common weapon in the universe is a musket. But it might be wielded by a robotic space captain.
If your curious about fluff of my world feel free to pm me.
But again, the point of this thread is for me to get ideas for exotic firearms.
For the sake of completion I'll relist my current exotic firearms.
Gunsword
Axeshotgun
Netgun
flask launcher (thanks Kaisoku!)
Anyone have any other ideas for exotic firearms?
Well, that was just a copy paste (with a bit of explanation and adding some dots to make more sense). Kinda dumped the whole thing in that post, figured something would be worthwhile, heh.
With a futuristic game using old style guns, it'll be hard to get the players into using guns as a main thing.
If you read about firearms in UC, you can see that the standard is set to "emerging guns" style of era, where guns are kind of a minor thing that virtually nobody uses except the class that gets a pile of bonuses for using them.
To be honest, only getting to shoot once a round (or once every other round), and doing standard damage at that, isn't going to grab anyone's attention.
However, that's a different discussion altogether.
On the subject of exotic firearms...
There's a few approaches to making the firearm unique:
1. "Slap a clock on it". Firearm + something else style of items. You already have the bayonet and axe/sword guns (UC had the axe gun too). UC also has the buckler gun. How about a few more:
- Gunmace - A mace with a gun inside. Can fire off a shot, point blank, on a hit. Or just a reinforced gun stalk allowing clubbing people much more effectively.
- Trident Gun - Three prongs sticking out the front of your longarm, instead of just the bayonet.
- Gun pick - Well.. you are getting the idea.
2. "Make it shoot something else". Play with the ammo. My flask launcher (and the container ideas that I had made) is one thing, but that's not the only kind of ammo out there:
- Speargun - Just like our real life underwater tool. Fires javelins or a specific ammo (something similar to a siangham or whatever). Blanks or bullet-less cartridges are loaded in the gun and then the spear/javelin thing loaded in the front and fired off, harpoon style (ooh, you could have one with a line attached for grappling goodness!).
- Bola launcher - Needs a better name, but taking the netgun concept towards a bola. I've seen these before in some form of cinema, so it's not so far fetched.
- Knifer - A gun that launches throwing daggers or shuriken, etc. Spinning blades of death fired off at the speed of gunpowder could make a frightening weapon.
3. "Hidden weapons". - Put guns inside something, or something inside your gun.
- Gun-dagger - Enemies getting too close? A spring-loaded knife that pops out the bottom of the handle allowing some close quarters stabbing is a good trick.
- Popout Gun - Have a tiny pistol hidden in a breakaway handle of a larger weapon. Good for surprise versatility, but give it the boon where you can pop it off if you are going to be disarmed (or have to drop your weapon when failing a trip attempt) and surprise that attacker.
Also, having such a tiny gun hidden in a wrist sheathe is also a classic.. spring loaded to, so you can get them out as a free action.
- Over-under - What's better than a gun? Why two guns of course! Combine a musket and blunderbuss, or make a LeMat grapeshot revolver (yes, it's a real weapon). Maybe a musket that is actually two pistols (built so the barrels can be attached), so you can pop'em apart and go all guns akimbo.
Taking a page from current military (and video gaming) with their rifle-grenade launcher combo stuff, it means at least you don't need to drop a valuable weapon to keep your versatility.
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Then there's always the two-ended gun that doubles as a boomerang... well, maybe that's going too far. ;)
At least a few of these ideas should make feasible concept weapons for ya.
A variant on the axe-shotgun, I used to have the blast-axe. Not really a gun, it's an axe with a few shotgun shells stuck into chambers on either side of the blade (didn't interfere with the axe portion). Design idea was that instead of letting the axe blade get caught in an enemy or their armor, you hit a catch on it to fire the shells and blast it free, causing even more hideous damage in the process. It could be set to only fire a few shells each time or all of them.
Additional suggestions following Kaisoku's principles:
Monster-in-a-bomb: Whether they be alchemically preserved and miniaturized, or a primed Scroll of Summon Monster *X*, it's a grenade you launch to make a rampaging monster or swarm. Probably needs to follow Conjuration's universal rules for not working in too confined of spaces or in the air. Whale bombs would make disgusting bunker-busters. Variants could include instant walls (excellent roadblocks), masses of vine and bramble, or unrealistically large loads of gelatin (gum up spell engines or clockwork, or make a semi-soft landing).
Magic Fed: The gun is not altogether too powerful, but "reloads" off of cantrips cast into it by people who know how to do so. Essentially, they're mage's self-defense derringers that are never short on ammo. Masterwork ones might add a point or two of energy damage depending on the cantrip used.
Hexzooka: The gun/bazooka curses those it hits. If it doesn't kill you initially, it makes you stupendously more likely to die from subsequent hits from anything (and not just using abstract HP drain). Might be excellent for riot control, since you can issue lots of rock-salt/rubber bullet/beanbag guns to ordinary soldiers, and a few get hexzookas to paint the real troublemakers so that the less-than-lethal guns become potentially lethal against a select few. It can also make for a terrifying weapon from an elite troop type if the weapon is normally lethal- Pathfinder doesn't ordinarily have a "death spiral" mechanic, but this could act as one.
Thanks!
@Kaisoku: You raise a valid point about the mechanical weakness of basic firearms. My players and I have discussed it at length. :) Its part of the reason I made all firearms martial (except of course the ones we're working on here). However I feel advanced firearms (which do exist, but are fairly uncommon) mostly mitigate the problem. A character with rapid reload and a rifle can shoot as much as he could with a bow.
But I digress. The information you posted about your steampunk setting has already been useful to me, and I plan to reference it more later. Thanks. Also your listing of methods of creating exotic weapons are spectacular and funny! Thanks again. "Slap a clock on it." Classic!
@Parka: I really like the concept of the blast-axe, and I've played around with similar weapons. In fact the gunsword was inspired by final fantasy 8 (if it isn't blatently obvious, hehe).
I found it a bit difficult to balance however. A sword (or axe or whatever) that fires a bullet every time you hit is just a better sword (more damage). An exotic weapon that's simply a better version of an existing weapon is bad times in my opinion. (I'm looking at you bastard sword, dwarven waraxe, elven curveblade etc).
I considered having the blast-weapon fire its salvo on a critical... but I don't know about that. (Perhaps because I tend to avoid crit effects as a player). One of my many questions in design was: does the extra damage from ammo get multiplied on a crit? I decided to put this kind of design on the back-burner unless a player requested it. Regardless I'd be happy to hear peoples thoughts on blast-weapon design, mechanics, and balance.
Your other ideas are very cool, but seem more like magic items than exotic weapons. This is not a bad thing. I fully intend to design some interesting futuristic magic items to replace some of the standard stuff and make the world more high tech. (As all advanced tech is magical in nature this will be good times hopefully.) Thanks for the input.
Once again thanks. I really appreciate the input and welcome more.
-Cooperton
Hmmm. Once you start using magic as a technological basis for the world, it gets fuzzy to me when something is a "magic item" and just another piece of equipment. Maybe I have been tinkering for too long. Glad you like them, though.
On the blast-axe, I figured it would be something you activate as a Swift action or the like. Since the principle of it was to free a stuck Axe, it wouldn't have that many shells on it to begin with (small gauge, too). It also wouldn't be something you activate on every hit- only when you needed it. It would essentially be extra damage, but I would resolve it as its own attack with some bonus for placement (it would have to bypass at least some of the same DR as the axe, and may simply ricochet off of especially thick armor the axe blade buried itself in- though the force may still be enough to free the axe again).
An extremely well-designed system might be able to rig something you could quickly reload, but the cheapest and most common would probably make the mechanism on the simple, rugged side, so you could expect it to be too hard to open mid-fight. They are probably more like something that the character would spend their swift action on to make a critical hit or coup-de-grace that much better, or at least scare the living daylights out of a group by brutally murdering one as an example (the Untouchables comes to mind).
I had only really pictured them as something gizmoteers might like and a few brutal types might favor- for everyone else, they're needlessly complicated, potentially unreliable, and cost money to use for something that is supposed to work all the time.
Your absolutely right. Magic as technology certainly blurs the line between what is mechanically an advanced weapon, and what is a magic weapon. Mostly I use power level and fluff as a method to draw the line. Ill consider the blast axe some more, but won't likely include it unless a player asks. Though the swift action activation and out of combat reloads will go a long way towards balancing it. Thanks again.
Its been about a week since anyone replied, so here's my updated list of exotic weapons for eberron 4040.
Cylinder saber (gunsword)
Orcish shotgun (shotgun-axe)
Netgun (can be purchased or modified to fire bolas instead)
Alchemist's launcher (fires flasks of alchemical substances)
Grappler (batman's grapple gun, can be used to trip)
Warforged Rifle (rifle+ shotgun)
Blast axe (if requested)
Still looking for more ideas. Feel free to chime in folks. :-)
Thanks again.
Bump
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I am reading this on my phone so I skipped some of the spoiler tags and I apologize if it has been covered. What about also adding new ammo? Maybe craft ammunition to create magical ammo. You could make arcane mark bullets they don't damage a target but makkes it possible to track someone, glitterdust rounds that could be used as a breaching or flashbang shot. Beanbag type rounds for nonlethal damage on a crit they would stun a target. I'm not advocating fireball rounds but some of the utility spells could make for fun swat team times.