What is the reach of my gargantuan eidolon?

[Ravingdork]

What is the reach of a huge serpentine eidolon under the effects of an enlarge person spell?

Also, did I make any mistakes in building him?

[concerro]

Quote:

Gargantuan (long) 20 ft. 15 ft.

15 feet according to the combat chapter

[EvilMinion]

Ravingdork wrote:

What is the reach of a huge serpentine eidolon under the effects of an enlarge person spell?

Also, did I make any mistakes in building him?

What concerro said re: the reach seems correct. Adding the reach evolutions onto that of course.

As to the build, it seems like there might be too many evolution points spent... But hard to say as it doesn't say if or what you chose to use with the Aspect special ability, or how you allocated the half-elf favored class points.

bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, and tail slap are free
claws (1), constrict (2), grab (2), improved damage (1), huge (10), legsx2 (4), mount (1), reach w tail (1), tentaclex2 (2)
That's 24, 26 if you used your two points for Aspect.

15 eidolon gets 20 (base) + 1 (extra evolution feat) + up to 3 from favored class ... puts your max at 24... So you'd end up 2 short.

Of course, I can't see that you spent either Aspect point, so quite possible you're fine, assuming you spent 12 favored class levels towards it too.

Also, I think your tail slap damage is off...
2d6 (base for huge) -> 3d6 (improved natural attack feat) -> 3d8 (improved damage evolution). Not a huge diff from 4d6 though

For the most part though, seems like you calculated everything fine and dandy... (which is rare for most folks building eidolons!)

[Ravingdork]

Nothing went into Aspect.

I got as many evolution points from favored class as I could.

Wouldn't tail slap damage be as follows?
2d6 (base for huge) -> 3d6 (improved damage evolution) -> 4d6 (improved natural attack feat)

If you go by the interpretation that the improved damage evolution increases the die type by one step (rather than following the damage size table progression) than suddenly you end up with weird situations like the following:

SLAM: 2d8 (base for huge) -> 3d8 (improved natural attack feat) -> 3d10 (improved damage evolution)

SLAM: 2d8 (base for huge) -> 2d10 (improved damage evolution) -> 4d8? (improved natural attack feat)

The order at which you take it changes the damage dice. I prefer to believe that the designers meant for it to be consistent regardless of the order and thus follow the previous interpretation (which always gives the same number).

[EvilMinion]

I'm going by what the description for improved damage evolution says.
Doing it as a size increase is not what it says. (not an uncommon interpretation I've noticed, however).

Build the creature, then apply the feats? Apply the feats, then build the creature? Or apply the feats mid-build?

The sort of question your GM would answer at that point I suppose. You're numbers are correct for the interpretation you're using, though.

In which case, all is well!

[Archaeik]

Everything looked kosher when I glanced at it.

INA (which also uses the "one step" language)offers a damage dice progression list right in the text. I'd assume that it's the standard to how things adjust. (ie, the eidolon evolution mimics the feat)

Quote:

Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.

A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.

The damage should double every other size increase.

(Also, when you start getting picky about "steps" vs "sizes"... the steps themselves start to get wonky at larger sizes.)

As a rule, I'd always build the creature before applying any feats.

Oh, and Strongjaw with this will make me happy.

[Ravingdork]

Wow. With enlarge person and strong jaw, we're talking 36d6+15 damage with improved vital strike and power attack. That averages out to 141 damage a hit!

Might just get a wand or some scrolls o' that.

EDIT: Simply taking a full attack WITHOUT strong jaw will net an average of 153 damage with Power Attack, however.

EDIT: But if I make a full attack WITH strong jaw AND power attack, the average damage jumps to a whopping 184 per round (assuming they hit).

EDIT: lol. Forgot about enlarge person. Average damage goes up to 225. :D

...my GM is going to HATE you, Archaeik.

[Archaeik]

Found the snag while answering another person.

Reach can only be taken once.

Eidolons#Evolutions wrote:

Evolutions are grouped by their cost in evolution points. Evolution points cannot be saved. All of the points must be spent whenever the summoner gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, each evolution can only be selected once.

It's arguable that the serpentine base form should still be able to get another (or swap the existing one - retaining the 1 evo cost similar to slam/pincer), but RAW it looks like you're stuck with only a bite with reach. :(

[Ravingdork]

I don't see how that conflicts as, technically, I did only select it once.

Since the first instance is freely given, and wholly non-selectable it cannot possibly count as "an evolution that has been selected." Besides, it seems weird and unintentional to me for there to be a form that couldn't take a general evolution like reach.

At best, the free reach evolution doesn't count agaisnt that rule (for the reasons above) and at worst it was a design oversight and should be ignored in this case anyways.

[Archaeik]

I only bring this up, because I think there's enough room in the rules for a GM to decide either way.

So you could get a double reach bite?
(definitely not the intent, but it only says increases)

I'm gonna do some more searching on the matter.

[Ravingdork]

Archaeik wrote:

So you could get a double reach bite?

If I were GMing I would be leaning AGAINST allowing double stacking in this case.