Reach Rogue build HELP!


Advice


My next character I would like to try something different. I'd like to try a Rogue who uses reach weapons for sneak attack/trip/disarm. I want to be more effective in combat and ranged hasn't really given me as much of a chance to use my SA as i'd like. Melee has always lead to a premature death for my rogues.

This time around I was considering using a whip with the master whip feat so I can sneak attack/trip/disarm with the whip and a rapier in my off hand in case they close the distance. I'm hoping that this will allow me to be helpful in combat and be less exposed to the direct melee beatdown I normally get.

I can use any races/feats/traits from any pathfinder book.
15pt buy system
we are starting on lvl 2.

The feats I know I have to take are

Exotic weap. prof. Whip
Whip Mastery

I was thinking the teamwork feat that allows me to flank when 2 or more ppl are adjacent to an enemy would also help me be able to use my SA/trip/disarm more often.

I would really appreciate any ideas or advice.

Grand Lodge

Scorpion whip. Look into it.

Scarab Sages

Just a thought: have you considered creating a caster rogue? You can still add sneak attack damage to ranged attacks within 30'. This includes spells, though you'd have to be using a touch or ranged touch spell. However, a 0-level Acid Splash or Ray of Frost works just fine for this, and you never run out of those 0-level spells. There are quite a number of other spells that are good for this tactic as well. Should you pursue the Arcane Trickster prestige class, you can eventually add your sneak attack damage to any spell at all, not just those that require attack rolls. That feature makes Magic Missile an even better offensive option. Regardless, the 30' range for sneak attacks should put you far enough away from melee that you won't get blasted as frequently. Add in Vanish, Shield, Invisibility, Blink, Expeditious Retreat, True Strike, Protection From Arrows, Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, Blur and False Life -- just to name a few of the low-level options -- and you have both more defenses and ways to attack with your sneak attack bonus damage. If you're facing creatures with energy resistance against all of your spells, be sure to have a back-up missile weapon to use instead of a spell.

Dark Archive

I would avoid whip and go for longspear instead. One, you'll save big on feats, and two, you'll save really big on feats. With a 15 point-buy you can go

Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8

or

Str 18, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8

the first being my personal pick. Wear a spiked gauntlet for up close, and enjoy your sneak attack from 10 ft. away. Enjoy also not having to pick up weapon finesse or any of the whip feats. This build goes very well with a level of barbarian or fighter for extra feats and armour proficiency. Of course, if you go with one of those levels, pick up a martial reach weapon, the bardiche being my favourite.


Mergy wrote:

I would avoid whip and go for longspear instead. One, you'll save big on feats, and two, you'll save really big on feats. With a 15 point-buy you can go

Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8

or

Str 18, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8

the first being my personal pick. Wear a spiked gauntlet for up close, and enjoy your sneak attack from 10 ft. away. Enjoy also not having to pick up weapon finesse or any of the whip feats. This build goes very well with a level of barbarian or fighter for extra feats and armour proficiency. Of course, if you go with one of those levels, pick up a martial reach weapon, the bardiche being my favourite.

+1

Focus on damage, with medium BAB would be dificult to succesful use combat maneuver.

Dark Archive

Well the beauty of a longspear is you can use your trip, disarm, etc. without having to worry about the attack of opportunity.


I agree, no whip. You're going to need every feat you can get already w/o adding a bunch more required feats to the mix.

I suggest multiclassing with 3 levels of full BAB classes, either all 3 in the same, or spread out, whatever you prefer. I'd do at least 1 level of Fighter, possibly all 3, to get some extra feats. Then at level 7 you'll have BAB +6 for Shatter Defenses. Use that with Thug or Rake Rogue (I prefer Thug, but it requires feat(s) to generate intimidate checks from attacks). Enforcer feat is a nice means of intimidating, though Cornugon Smash is also quite good. You could either go bludgeoner + sap adept/master with a blugeoning reach weapon, or use blade of mercy trait with a slashing weapon.

If you do insist on a tripping build (it has no relation at all to getting sneak attack and rogue's medium BAB really hurts the CMB..), I suggest doing 3 levels in Inquisitor with whatever other classes you're planning. That way you get Solo Tactics and can pick up Tandem Trip as a bonus feat. Any time another ally is threatening a foe, you can roll 2d20 for any trip attempts and take the higher roll. Inquisitor also means you don't fall behind on skill points much compared to rogue, either.

Liberty's Edge

Whip is nice, that 15' reach can be a good alternative to going into melee, or even into 5' step distance.

Feats needed, though ,can really hurt you:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip (required to use whip without -4)
Weapon Focus: Whip (required for Whip Mastery)
Whip Mastery (+2 BAB required, allows lethal/non-lethal, ignore armor, no longer provoke)
Combat Expertise (Int 13 needed)
Gang Up (Int 13, Combat Expertise required, flank if two allies flanking)
Improved Whip Mastery (+5 BAB required, adds AoOs with whip at 5' & 10')
Combat Reflexes (extra AoOs, rather than just the normal one)

A bit stat & feat intensive, really. Can allow you to also use drag & reposition maneuvers (per the trip blog entry), which can have their benefits, as well.

Possibly start with 2 or 3 levels of Fighter (Lore Warden)? That gets you a bunch of feats, along with Combat Expertise for free, extra hit points, but will cut down your SA damage, but increase your BAB.

As to normal polearms for use, remember that they require armor spikes/spiked gauntlet or other work-around to deal with no threat when adjacent with it. Not much different than the whip, until you get the Improved Whip Mastery feat.


that is some really good advice. I like the idea of using a long spear or polearm and a spiked gauntlet as opposed to needing all the feats with whip. Is this a viable build or am I nerfing myself?

@Obi I actually also considered doing a rogue wizard as well to avoid melee death heh. I was considering a specialist conjugation teleportation so I could dimension door around and shoot rays. I'm still trying to figure out which would be more effective and helpful to my party.

Dark Archive

A strength rogue is actually one of the easier to play, and you have the advantage of being able to grab heavy armour with a single level of fighter as well. I would caution against an arcane trickster build; you'll go through a lot of levels of not feeling particularly useful. On the other hand, if you want to go that way, I'd suggest rogue 1/wizard 19.

If you're doing as StreamOfTheSky suggests by grabbing three full BAB levels to compliment your rogue levels, then there are a few good options:

Fighter 3: armour training 1, lots of feats, bravery (eh), heavy armour.

Fighter (Weaponmaster) 3: weapon training 1 for that gloves of dueling magic, and all the regular fighter stuff.

Barbarian 1/Ranger 2: fast movement, rage (which you'll grab extra rage to capitalize on, plus a combat style feat you wouldn't otherwise be able to qualify for: claws comes to mind. All that plus medium armour.

Barbarian 3: more rage and a rage power of your choice. Do you want claws or a bite attack instead of a spiked gauntlet? Remember you can 5-foot step in the middle of a full attack. If you're flanking with your longspear, sneak attack and then step up and bite them in the face.

There is also the paladin option, but that would require a higher charisma and an alignment straight-jacket. Still, three levels of paladin would be excellent; you'd get self-healing and your saves would be much better. Paladin levels would make the build more ninja-friendly, so a point-buy for a Paladin 3/Ninja x could go as follows:

Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14


Mergy wrote:


Fighter (Weaponmaster) 3: weapon training 1 for that gloves of dueling magic, and all the regular fighter stuff.

+1

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