| Ethandrul |
Ok, so 11th level magus with:
+1 scimitar of spell storing (vamperic touch)
improved crit scimitar (15-20 x2)
intensified shocking grasp (allows spell to be 10d6 instead of 5d6) cast on round#1 (casts then moves)
round 2
attacks with uber sword....CRIT!
does sword damage x2
10d6 lightingx2 from crit
3d6 vampiric touch damage (spell storing) x2 from crit
second attack is a regular hit with sword for 1d6
THEN
casts a free touch spell...say....another intensified shocking grasp
for another 10d6 electricity damage (that can crit for x2 on a nat 20.
so assuming attack# hits a 15, and the touch attack hits a 20 I could do
like 240 electrical damage
36 negative energy damage (that heals me too)
and my weapon damage to boot. of course I could use my arcana pool to add frost, fire, burst or whatever to add to this even more and do over 300 points in 1 round. all it takes is 2 feats.
I could use the empower spell arcana on thatshocking grasp too. for more rediculous damage.
I realize that there are probably more optimal ways to deal damage, but this one seems pretty good.
| Frenchfrie |
1. yes, you can cast and hold a charge to use spell strike in the secound round so yes thats 10d6x2 for the spell.
2. yes, you can free cast the stored vampiric touch from the blade and it also gain the benifite of the x2 so yes thats 3d6x2.
3. yes, your weapon deals x2 damage so thats 1d6+1+strx2
4. yes, you can use your secound attack.
note 1: keep in mind tho if you are casting a secound shocking grasp in round two that you have to apply the (-2) to all your attacks
and you don't have to use a touch attack with it if you still want to use spell strike
note 2: keep in mind the shocking grasp gives you a +3 to hit if the target is wearing metal or holding a metal weapon
note 3: look into (trait) "Magical Lineage" to lower the spell level back down
| Frenchfrie |
aslo, if your needing a max d6 weapon attacks to start combate
try to use your (swift action) to charge your weapon with your arcane pool the round your casting the held spell.
i know the cost seems alot if you use accurate strike often, but use it with enduring weapon if you can to minimize loss of ap.
you can add flaming and frost to your weapon at level 11 since it's already magical. an extra 2d6 damage per weapon hit can be the straw that breaks the camel.
most gms are using monsters with elec resistance and negative energy resistance to combate magus max damage moves. watch out for those with high spell resistance as well.
| Grick |
I don't think you can spell strike with a held charge.
Does it say you can do that somewhere that I missed?
Sentence one: "At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack."
This means if he has A) Cast the spell, B) it has a range of touch, and C) was from the magus spell list, then he can deliver the spell through a weapon.
Sentence two: "Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell."
In addition to sentence one, this clarifies that the free attack you get as a result of casting a touch spell also can be delivered through a weapon.
Sentence three through five: "If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier."
This tells you what happens when you hit.
Sentence one by itself could be taken the same way any caster can currently deliver a touch spell via unarmed strike or natural weapons. This is why sentence two is necessary, because otherwise people may think you can't use it on the free attack granted by casting the spell. Sadly, it seems to confuse people more this way, where they think you can only use it on the free attack, and not every other attack you could make normally.
| james maissen |
Ok, so 11th level magus with:
+1 scimitar of spell storing (vamperic touch)
improved crit scimitar (15-20 x2)
intensified shocking grasp (allows spell to be 10d6 instead of 5d6) cast on round#1 (casts then moves)I realize that there are probably more optimal ways to deal damage, but this one seems pretty good.
You elect to discharge the spell stored in the weapon on a hit, so you can't claim the critical from it.. otherwise you'd just always wait until you got a critical (moreover if it were on a scythe would you claim x4 damage there?). It's something that's come up since 3e.
Now at 11th level the magus should NOT being essentially doing nothing on round one but casting and moving. At the very least they can make a free attack with their scimitar to discharge the intensified shocking grasp.
Round 2 also has problems as if you are using spell combat to also make that cast (perfectly fine) you would also want to use the spell combat feature to try to deliver the free attack via the scimitar vs a touch attack (unless you are having trouble hitting).
As to 'OMG' how powerful this is.. compare an 11th level mobile fighter who can make all but his first attack while he's moving. That's in round 1 where your magus has done nothing. In round 2 he can do so again.
The magus, if they happen to crit on the attack delivering their spell (as opposed to say the second attack) can deal spikey damage. But honestly a magus NEEDS to be using spell combat to stay at the same level as a normal fighter.
Lastly you need to recall that you are not dealing X damage in round 1, you are dealing 0 damage in round 1! Your numbers are also off:
Your held shocking grasp with a crit deals 70 (on average, SR & elemental resist applies), if you happen to crit twice that's only 140 damage with it not 240. Meanwhile the fighter could deal that 120 damage in ONE crit (say 40pts with a x3 crit)..
Focusing on how much damage you can do when you always critical isn't really the best way to be looking at things. I witnessed in 3.5 a 3rd level PC dealing 120 damage in one round (a nat 20 x3 crit that was confirmed followed by a cleave for another nat 20 x3 crit, dealing 60pts each time). But there's a reason why this sticks out in my mind.. the odds are around 1000 to 1 for it to happen.
-James
| Frenchfrie |
ah you are correct about the stored spell not criting good catch.
i tend not to make calls on the situation that starts the combat.
however. if its theory we are working under.
and ideal situations i do have a standard set of events i fallow
yours maybe different... style :)
rnd 1 (swift action arcane pool) plus up weapon either with d6
energy or keen (if not present "love the 15-20x2"
spell combate melee attacks to gage ac
if i have spell storing i would use it round one and yes vt
cast defensive spell "sheild or mirror image"
rnd 2 (swift action accurate strike or acane redoubt) depending on
enemy type
spellcombat with spell strike
shocking grasp or vamp touch (depending on enemy type)
repeat as much as i can untill i need a recharge of defence or ap on weapon
all leads to about [wpn D + str + ench bonus + spell D} (x2 50%) + enchantment D all D averaging halp say 3 so in one round you do
at level 10 say given affor mentioned conditions
[d6(3)+0(no str given)+1 +10D6(30)]x1 (no crit) +2D6(6) enchant energy
about 40 no crit and about x2 (70) with a crit
thats with half die damage and thats only the spellstrike attack if it hits and if you dont discharge the stored spell otherwise add another 3D6 (9) to both those... yup looks about what a mobility fighter can put out using his tricks too... looks like there maybe balance after all
| Ethandrul |
aslo, if your needing a max d6 weapon attacks to start combate
try to use your (swift action) to charge your weapon with your arcane pool the round your casting the held spell.
i know the cost seems alot if you use accurate strike often, but use it with enduring weapon if you can to minimize loss of ap.
you can add flaming and frost to your weapon at level 11 since it's already magical. an extra 2d6 damage per weapon hit can be the straw that breaks the camel.
most gms are using monsters with elec resistance and negative energy resistance to combate magus max damage moves. watch out for those with high spell resistance as well.
I AM the DM....
| Ethandrul |
ah you are correct about the stored spell not criting good catch.
i tend not to make calls on the situation that starts the combat.
however. if its theory we are working under.
and ideal situations i do have a standard set of events i fallow
yours maybe different... style :)
rnd 1 (swift action arcane pool) plus up weapon either with d6
energy or keen (if not present "love the 15-20x2"
spell combate melee attacks to gage ac
if i have spell storing i would use it round one and yes vt
cast defensive spell "sheild or mirror image"
rnd 2 (swift action accurate strike or acane redoubt) depending on
enemy type
spellcombat with spell strike
shocking grasp or vamp touch (depending on enemy type)
repeat as much as i can untill i need a recharge of defence or ap on weapon
all leads to about [wpn D + str + ench bonus + spell D} (x2 50%) + enchantment D all D averaging halp say 3 so in one round you do
at level 10 say given affor mentioned conditions
[d6(3)+0(no str given)+1 +10D6(30)]x1 (no crit) +2D6(6) enchant energy
about 40 no crit and about x2 (70) with a crit
thats with half die damage and thats only the spellstrike attack if it hits and if you dont discharge the stored spell otherwise add another 3D6 (9) to both those... yup looks about what a mobility fighter can put out using his tricks too... looks like there maybe balance after all
on average yes. i am looking at MAXIMUM damage. also, I'm pretty sure that all spell effects that require an attack roll crit x2. I could be wrong though.
| Frenchfrie |
as far as crit for spells go by themselves they are always 20 x2
but for spellstrike its the weapons range in this case 15-20 x2
its in spellstrike discription
the weapon extra dc never doubles unless they take the advanced form of the enchanment
as far as max damage goes yeah thats up there and can on a good roll or use of maximize spell (arcana or feat) deal at level 11 10d6 for the SG a 60 point blow if crit thats 120 just from the spell not to mention the 2d6 from the weapon its slef +1x2 for the weapon enchant and x2 for any d6 weapon ablilitys your looking at max with no strength and the VT
120SG +2 wpn bns +12 wpn die +36 VT + 12 enchanments for max hit dmg for
the one hit of 182hp
before DR and ER
thats really nice but makes you the one it (if not dead) and all others in the room want to take out first lol
| james maissen |
on average yes. i am looking at MAXIMUM damage. also, I'm pretty sure that all spell effects that require an attack roll crit x2. I could be wrong though.
Spiritual weapon would be an exception to that (depending upon the weapon).
Again focusing on maximums is misleading. Is a scythe the ultimate weapon with it's x4 crit?
-James