This is the first run of this Archetype for the Alchemist. Yes, it has prof with fire arms (I know I didn't write it down.)
This alchemist is suppose to be of a rough and tumble type, who would be sort of a support character if for some reason, you made a adventuring group composed of gun-wielders.
The Deeds are a bit in the area of the action movie. Explosive walk, is that slow motion walk away from the explosion. I do want to move deeds around a bit though, and get some more specific ones for this archetype at early levels.
the Amateur gunslinger feat might be replaced with a closer normal Grit that uses Int or possibly Wis.. The archetype may have grit, but it can never do anything that a gunslinger could when the gunslinger starts getting 7th level deeds. This one is suppose to be more of a demoman, than the sharpshooter of the normal gunslinger.
I do want to do something to bombs so they function slightly different to prevent Vivisection from getting this archetype.
(I know my spelling/grammar/sentence structure is horrible for this stuff.. I'm currently in the random idea jot down portion of designing..)
Gunslinger Alchemist Archetypes
Demolitionist
Diminished Spell-casting - Has one fewer infusion per day at each infusion level.
Gunsmithing - Gains Gunsmithing as a bonus feat and starts off with a battered weapon similar to a gunslinger. Replaces brew potion.
Alchemical Gunslinger - Gains Amateur gunslinger as a bonus feat. Use int instead of wisdom for number of grit points restored per day. The demolistionist also regains grit whenever he kills an enemy with a bomb or causes a critical hit with a bomb. Same rules apply as with critical hit/killing with a firearm. Replaces Mutagen.at 2nd level and At 5th level, instead of poison resistance, The alchemist may select one deed on the standard gunslinger deed list of 1st level. The alchemist gains this deed.
Instead of Poison Use, the alchemist gains smoke bomb as a bonus discovery.At 6th level, instead of swift poisoning, the Demolitionist gains Delay Bomb as bonus discovery.
8th level and 10th level, the Demolitionist may select one deed on the standard gunslinger deed list of 3rd level and lower list. The alchemist gains this deed. This replaces poison resistance and immunity.
At 14th level instead of persistent mutagen, the alchemist gains the following deeds:
Explosive Walk: As long as the Alchemist has a grit point, he is treated as having evasion. He may spend a grit point to move five feet(provoking AoO) or dive up to half his movement speed. (he is prone after the dive.) when needing to make a reflex save vs an AoE attack as an immediate action. If he does, he gains +2 to the reflex save and is treated as having improved evasion for the the attack.
Pocketing bomb: The alchemist may spend a grit point to use slight of hand vs an enemies CMD. if successful, the alchemist may place a bomb on the enemy or in the enemies pouch. If successful by ten or more the enemy is unaware of the bomb and is denied their reflex save vs it. After using this deed the alchemist may make a movement action that does not provoke AoO.
First impressions:
For Pocket Bomb, would it be easier to just count it as an automatic direct hit? I wasn't aware that they got reflex saves against that, I thought that was for splash damage or secondary effects. Presumably, it being in their pouch or the like might shield or entirely prevent splash damage (at least at a worthwhile range for hitting others). So far, all you get out of it is the ability to drop a bomb in melee and a free movement action afterwards unless you beat their CMD by ten (which will probably not be possible at all without severe skill cheesing, or an enemy not worth dropping a bomb onto except for morbid laughs). Also, how does it interact with their gear (which is already something of a sore spot for some)?
Kudos for the Fallout memories though.
Explosive walk is odd in that it neither requires you to leave the area of effect, nor does it do anything different whether you leave the AoE or not in the process of repositioning. The name is also a bit off-putting... it just kind of sounds a bit leisurely for something that improves reflex saves.
Killing with Bombs seems like it would be a great deal easier than killing with firearms- and you would probably quite easily kill many targets with a single bomb or bomb salvo than you would with a firearm. So regaining grit from bomb use probably ought to be double-checked.
Diminished Spellcasting seems odd, weak and slightly unnecessary if some other things are toned down (such as the bomb/grit regain). With adequate Int, I'm not sure how much you would notice it, unless you were intending to use it to delay gaining a new level of Extracts each time (which may not even work, as the paladin and ranger have taught us that 0 spells per day on the table means that bonus spells still apply).
Interesting. I'm going to dot this for future reference.
First impressions:
For Pocket Bomb, would it be easier to just count it as an automatic direct hit? I wasn't aware that they got reflex saves against that, I thought that was for splash damage or secondary effects. Presumably, it being in their pouch or the like might shield or entirely prevent splash damage (at least at a worthwhile range for hitting others). So far, all you get out of it is the ability to drop a bomb in melee and a free movement action afterwards unless you beat their CMD by ten (which will probably not be possible at all without severe skill cheesing, or an enemy not worth dropping a bomb onto except for morbid laughs). Also, how does it interact with their gear (which is already something of a sore spot for some)?
Kudos for the Fallout memories though.
I know, I got to work the wording in that a bit. you are using a delayed bomb and planting it on them. If you plant it on someone it is considered a direct hit, and only denies the reflex save if some secondary effect has such a thing.
Gear-wise.. It does nothing that wouldn't have happened if they got hit by the bomb normally.
I think its going to be based vs perception (Or BAB+wis, like feint does if they don't have perception, but only when placing it on them.) instead of CMD and allow you not only to plant it on a enemy, but anywhere. So, as you walk away from the caravan, you could leave a nasty little surprise.
Explosive walk is odd in that it neither requires you to leave the area of effect, nor does it do anything different whether you leave the AoE or not in the process of repositioning. The name is also a bit off-putting... it just kind of sounds a bit leisurely for something that improves reflex saves.
It is actually intended to be a bit leasuirly with the five foot step one. Demolitionist Theme song
Its the alchemists version of rogue space. However, I guess putting a slight increase bonus to it might not be too bad either if you get out of the AoE. But it should give one either way.
Killing with Bombs seems like it would be a great deal easier than killing with firearms- and you would probably quite easily kill many targets with a single bomb or bomb salvo than you would with a firearm. So regaining grit from bomb use probably ought to be double-checked.
The demolitionist however starts off with a single grit point. He may pick up increased grit of course, but unlike a gunslinger, he still only has a limited number of times per day he can regain grit.
But How about gaining the grit back only applies if you kill with a direct hit.
Diminished Spellcasting seems odd, weak and slightly unnecessary if some other things are toned down (such as the bomb/grit regain). With adequate Int, I'm not sure how much you would notice it, unless you were intending to use it to delay gaining a new level of Extracts each time (which may not even work, as the paladin and ranger have taught us that 0 spells per day on the table means that bonus spells still apply).
You would probally notice it just as much if not worse than the number of Magus archetypes that have it.
I'm going to be building more deeds for this archetype.
The gunslinger can regain an infinite number of grit points per day. Their max is their wis mod. They refill to their max everyday. I recommend keeping it wisdom or cha. It's meant to be on a non-main stat.
Fair enough on the diminished spellcasting. The Magus doesn't grip me or people I game with, so I don't pay attention to its archetypes. I'm usually never short on extracts playing vanilla Alchemists, so I didn't know how much of a limitation it would be. It might even be more of a limitation, since the Magus can sort of regain spells with points from his Arcane Pool.
I enjoy the concept of the Pocket Bomb, it's very cool. The reason I asked about their gear is because I have seen posts and even played in groups where some people are absolute terrors about gear getting damaged by adventuring. They grit their teeth when fireball or bombs don't set clothing on fire, or declare that 1d4 potions are broken when you fall down a pit trap. Pocket Bomb involves actually putting a bomb inside of their backpack- some people just won't be able to take it anymore. It's not really your problem per se, and I myself like the ability too much to recommend scrapping it just because of them.
On the subject of the Pocket Bomb check, I think CMD is a pretty good thing to base it off of to start with, I just think that trying to beat the monster's CMD by 10 is a steep requirement at mid to late levels (BAB often scales at the rate of skill ranks, and CMD is boosted by Strength, Dex and Size, while Sleight of hand has only really has feats and Dex to help it). (Also, on the "hide it anywhere" thing, you can kind of do that already with Delay Bomb. Pocket Bomb is great since it lets you do that in-combat. Maybe a bonus to hiding it elsewhere, but it's pretty easy already.)
On the grit regain, I agree that a direct hit is probably a needed requirement. Pathfinder Firearms, to my knowledge, don't have the ability to kill more than one foe per attack, while bombs do. If the Demolitionist ends up having more than one grit point somehow (actually taking levels in Gunslinger or the like), then being able to refill the grit pool at once with a well-placed bomb could be a problem. Unlikely, but it's a possibility that's easy enough to prevent.
The gunslinger can regain an infinite number of grit points per day. Their max is their wis mod. They refill to their max everyday. I recommend keeping it wisdom or cha. It's meant to be on a non-main stat.
Gunslinger is Dex/Wis or Dex/Cha. Putting the amateur gunslinger for this archetype for an alchemist puts it at Dex/Wis/Int as main stats. I'm actually a little bit design conscious on the effects of MAD and what it does to classes.
Fair enough on the diminished spellcasting. The Magus doesn't grip me or people I game with, so I don't pay attention to its archetypes. I'm usually never short on extracts playing vanilla Alchemists, so I didn't know how much of a limitation it would be. It might even be more of a limitation, since the Magus can sort of regain spells with points from his Arcane Pool.
I enjoy the concept of the Pocket Bomb, it's very cool. The reason I asked about their gear is because I have seen posts and even played in groups where some people are absolute terrors about gear getting damaged by adventuring. They grit their teeth when fireball or bombs don't set clothing on fire, or declare that 1d4 potions are broken when you fall down a pit trap. Pocket Bomb involves actually putting a bomb inside of their backpack- some people just won't be able to take it anymore. It's not really your problem per se, and I myself like the ability too much to recommend scrapping it just because of them.
Well the ability itself isn't actually just putting it "in a pocket" but simply attaching it. After all, dragons typically don't carry pouches.
On the subject of the Pocket Bomb check, I think CMD is a pretty good thing to base it off of to start with, I just think that trying to beat the monster's CMD by 10 is a steep requirement at mid to late levels (BAB often scales at the rate of skill ranks, and CMD is boosted by Strength, Dex and Size, while Sleight of hand has only really has feats and Dex to help it). (Also, on the "hide it anywhere" thing, you can kind of do that already with Delay Bomb. Pocket Bomb is great since it lets you do that in-combat. Maybe a bonus to hiding it elsewhere, but it's pretty easy already.)
The "hide it anywhere" is more along the lines of being able to run around a corner and place the bomb, and have enemies essentially run into it. Basically while you are observed..
I'm still kinda iffy on CMD. I know thats what I put before, but as you pointed out, CMD is improved by larger size. While, the ability to place the bomb isn't.
I'm still doing some developments in the alchemical deeds. I'm actually going to remove most of the ability of choosing gunslinger deeds, but the alchemist does get quick clear.
On the grit regain, I agree that a direct hit is probably a needed requirement. Pathfinder Firearms, to my knowledge, don't have the ability to kill more than one foe per attack, while bombs do. If the Demolitionist ends up having more than one grit point somehow (actually taking levels in Gunslinger or the like), then being able to refill the grit pool at once with a well-placed bomb could be a problem. Unlikely, but it's a possibility that's easy...
Shotgun, Blunderbuss and the Culvian all have scatter type attack, which would allow for multiple kills/crit hits, in a single shot.
Some revisions to explosive walk.
thought about changing the name to "Cool guys don't look at explosions" but that would be terrible to say every time you use it.
So Explosive walk, The Alchemist gains it at level 2. However, that is only for the initial ability to dodge the AoE. You can move five feet, provoking AoO to gain a +2 bonus. Or you can dive half your movement speed, and fall prone at the end of the movement while not provoking AoO. If you exit the AoE effect range, you gain an additional +2 bonus on your reflex save. (cost a grit point)
At level 8, so long as you have a grit point you have evasion, and using the ability gives you improved evasion vs that attack.
Pocket Bomb - you gain this one at level 8. (after gaining delayed bomb.)
The bomb functions just like delayed bomb. To plant it, you must pass a sleight of hand check vs the targets CMD. You gain a +2 for every size category the target is larger than medium and -2 for every size category it is smaller. This is impossible to do to creatures that are smaller than tiny.
A success of 5 higher than the target CMD, means the target is unaware of the bomb and is denied his reflex save. Anyone else may make a perception check to notice the bomb vs your sleight of hand roll. IF you succeed by 10 or more the bomb is so well hidden, that the DC for reflex save for each creature in the blast radius increases by your dex modifier, and roll as though it was a direct hit on the target (even though it is a delayed bomb.)
It is a standard action to do this, and you may make a move action (provided of you have one) to move away from the target. If you do, this movement does not provoke AoE from the target.
That's kinda the guidelines.. now to clean it up into easy to understand rule speak.
Also Parka, on the talk about stuff being burned/etc. I think those players might be ADnD guys. Cause every time anyone get hit by anything magical, every piece of equipment on a person needs to make a saving throw or turn TO SAND!
I find it to be annoying. Makes me want to make a monk or something that doesn't use items.
Some revisions to explosive walk.
thought about changing the name to "Cool guys don't look at explosions" but that would be terrible to say every time you use it.
Call it "Walk Away"
Good catch on the other guns. I'm just not on my game lately.
A success of 5 higher than the target CMD, means the target is unaware of the bomb and is denied his reflex save. Anyone else may make a perception check to notice the bomb vs your sleight of hand roll. IF you succeed by 10 or more the bomb is so well hidden, that the DC for reflex save for each creature in the blast radius increases by your dex modifier, and roll as though it was a direct hit on the target (even though it is a delayed bomb.)
Delayed Bomb states that anything in its square is "directly hit," so the last bit is somewhat redundant unless you think people will overlook it. You pointed this out earlier, but this paragraph seems to imply that the target is treated as though it was in a splash effect alone unless it beats CMD by 10 or more. Maybe:
If you beat the check by 5 or more, the target is unaware of the planted bomb, and is denied its saving throw against a secondary effect from a direct bomb hit (spell-like effects such as Cloudkill from a Poison Bomb can still be saved against normally). If you beat the check by 10 or more, the well-hidden nature of the bomb increases the save DC to resist splash damage by your Dexterity modifier.
It seems odd that the lack of awareness of enemies inflicts a penalty in proportion with your relative grace (Dex modifier), but I can't think of anything better at the moment. Just seems bizarre. Maybe a flat penalty or denying a bonus for them?
Well the reason I did Dex was cause you used Dex to place the bomb in the first place.
as far as delayed bomb.. you are right. That's what I get for trying to work on this while at work and not really paying as much attention as I should to mechanics powers..
how about..
For 10 over, it just increases the DC.
5 he is denied reflex only if you apply an effect that does such.
and don't worry about the guns. Only reason I know is cause I'm actively using a gunslinger. I'm obviously screwing up minor details with this this archetype..