I was thinking the other day about the nature of worship of Aroden, a dead God certainly, but has there been any depiction of cults awaiting his return? In particular, it seems that a cult devoted to Aroden could also be a nationalistic, Cheliax insurgency... wishing for the return of "the good ol' days" and rallying behind the image of Aroden. Is there anything like this described in sourcebooks, adventures, etc.?
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I haven't read any adventures about it, but if you were homebrewing, I would make them up of Razmiran Priests and maybe some experts with Use Magic Device. Should be enough to have a cult going, with some devoted followers made up by fighters and rogues.
Closest I've seen are a group mentioned in the adventure Beyond the Vault of Souls. They're really not a well-knit group, but rather splintered into multiple factions. Chances are you'd have to design your own.
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Totally would have been my submission to round two of RPSuperstar ... if I'd made the cut ... and if non-antagonistic groups were legal :-)
My idea was a loose knit group of paladins and inquisitors (who point to their holy powers as proof that Aroden is still alive), detective scholars (obsessed with cracking the greatest mystery in golarion), fringe cleric lunatics (who believe that Aroden is trapped in the center of the Eye, or stuck inside the Worldwound, or trapped between plains), etc.
There are a few of his official worshipers left in Sargava, especially Eleder. In fact, one of the most important people - the baron of Sargava - is a reasonably high level cleric. A high level cleric without spells, but a high level cleric nonetheless.
Still, mostly the "cult of Aroden" is now the "church of Iomedae" and they worship her as his inheritor. I suspect you'll find more than a few "heretics" in her ranks, though.
There is a cult dedicated to him. In the prophecies certain nations are supposed to exist and certain actions were supposed to have taken place during his life. The problem is that Aroden died before these things took place. They believe there has been some cosmic level mistake, so they try to force these things back into being to force Aroden to return.
I will post the name and source of the cult if I can find it again.
Just remember that it does stretch plausibility to hang onto a god more than half a century since he went offline for his clerics.
That may not be much time for an elf, but it's a long time for Humans to hang onto something especially since most of them that were alive at the time of his demise are dead by now.
True... but what I was thinking of having happen is a recent (in the last fifty years or so) series of "miracles" which the Cult is attributing to Aroden's returning. Combine that with a few reported visions (real or fabricated for political gain) of an aspect of Aroden foretelling the dead God's return and a promise to return control of Cheliax "to the faithful" from the house of Thrune could bring sheep to the fold.
I have been working on this angle for a player in our group who wants their character involved in a resurgence of the worship of Aroden.
You can have that crazy cult I mentioned above faking such miracles. If he adventures in the name of Aroden, and does well he can draw more people to his banner.
The PC never has to know the miracles are fake. :)
You're right wrathstrike, about the group that thinks his death was a cosmic mistake. I didn't think they were truly strongly devoted to Aroden, however, just in righting the "wrongs". If I recall correctly, they have a list of prophecies from before his death and are feverishly working to make one - any one - come true to put the world "back on track". They've yet to succeed, however.
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I was thinking the other day about the nature of worship of Aroden, a dead God certainly, but has there been any depiction of cults awaiting his return? In particular, it seems that a cult devoted to Aroden could also be a nationalistic, Cheliax insurgency... wishing for the return of "the good ol' days" and rallying behind the image of Aroden. Is there anything like this described in sourcebooks, adventures, etc.?
Not much stuff canonically, but in a setting where cleric-adjacent 'faiths' like the Whispering Way, Kalistocracy and Green Faith exist along side divine-less cultures like Razmiran, the Rahadoumi, Hermea, etc. it's entirely plausible for a faithful congretation of Arodenites to remain loyal, even in the absence of clerics.
Such believers might even regard themselves as being more pure than those who flock only to the banner of gods that hand out candy to their worshippers, seeing the silence of Aroden as a test, to weed out the opportunists and fair-weather-friends among the faithful, leaving behind only those who serve the tenets of Aroden out of sincere belief, and not for the free bennies.
I believe there's still some following for Aroden in Andoran, as well.
Such believers might even regard themselves as being more pure than those who flock only to the banner of gods that hand out candy to their worshippers, seeing the silence of Aroden as a test, to weed out the opportunists and fair-weather-friends among the faithful, leaving behind only those who serve the tenets of Aroden out of sincere belief, and not for the free bennies.
This is more or less exactly how those few left that I've read about have been described.
Thank you all for the good input on this... I will propose a couple of different ways of handling it to the player and see what she says.
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Just curious, but why would anyone want to have or be in a Cult of Aroden? He is kind of a failure, I think. What had he done in the last 1000 years or so that's even worth being a god of humanity? It's like after the starstone and Absalom, after the Whispering Tyrrant, (again a failure on his part really, but all for a future story), has he done anything worth being even known, <besides dying/vanishing and screwing up prophecy and all that>?
Just curious, but why would anyone want to have or be in a Cult of Aroden? He is kind of a failure, I think. What had he done in the last 1000 years or so that's even worth being a god of humanity? It's like after the starstone and Absalom, after the Whispering Tyrrant, (again a failure on his part really, but all for a future story), has he done anything worth being even known, <besides dying/vanishing and screwing up prophecy and all that>?
Aroden has done a surprising amount in his existence. Certainly not all have been 100% successful, but don't forget he's the first human to ascend to Godhood. Furthermore, he was the last pure-blooded Azlant human alive. (Azlanti were legendary, especially in the Inner Sea region) That alone makes him something of a legend.
You are correct though, Aroden did very little in the last 1000 years of his existence. Well, except for ensuring the continued success of all prophesy up until his demise. :)
But I'm a fan of Aroden, so here's what I know he's done:
- Raised the Starstone and ascended
- Opened the way to allowing mortals to ascend to godhood.
- Brought the brightest and best humans to live in Absalom to create the most powerful and influential city in the Inner Sea (possibly in Golarion)
- Helps defend Absalom (albeit indirectly) from an invasion by the Archmage Nex in 166 AR
- Defeats Tar-Baphon in single combat (sadly, only a temporary set-back for the Whispering Trant) in 896 AR
- Made all efforts to PERSONALLY return to Golarion to lead humanity into a golden age [i.e. Age of Glory] (name ONE other deity who tried to do this)
That's just what I know off the top of my head. I don't think there are many deities quite as involved in human affairs as Aroden. :)
I was thinking the other day about the nature of worship of Aroden, a dead God certainly, but has there been any depiction of cults awaiting his return? In particular, it seems that a cult devoted to Aroden could also be a nationalistic, Cheliax insurgency... wishing for the return of "the good ol' days" and rallying behind the image of Aroden. Is there anything like this described in sourcebooks, adventures, etc.?
Hvave you considered the Harbingers of Fate?
See: http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Harbingers_of_FateThese guys are (somewhat fanatically) trying to bring about the Age of Glory by attempting to realign the prophesies of Aroden.
EDIT: Oh, that's likely the one that wraithstrike mentioned :)
I think that is the group I was talking about, but I could not remember the name.
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Didn't The Whispering Tyrant basically have to trap Aroden into a confrontation before Aroden finally got into that fight? That is to say after the Whispering Tyrant decimated most of his greatest and most faithful followers on the mortal plane, decimated an entire land (Ustalav), and did all kinds of evil against humanity for years/decade/+?
I'm honestly just curious, not trying to be arrogant talk down about your ideas.
Didn't The Whispering Tyrant basically have to trap Aroden into a confrontation before Aroden finally got into that fight? That is to say after the Whispering Tyrant decimated most of his greatest and most faithful followers on the mortal plane, decimated an entire land (Ustalav), and did all kinds of evil against humanity for years/decade/+?
I'm honestly just curious, not trying to be arrogant talk down about your ideas.
I don't have my books on me right now, but from memory (and the wiki) I am under the impression that Aroden and The Whispering Tyrant battled it out on the Isle of Terror in 896 AR. The Whispering Tyrant had laid a series of traps on the isle (Within the Well of Sorrows) with the expectation that Aroden would be trapped and destroyed wihtin the dungeon. It didn't work (although I think Aroden bypassed the dungeon, leaving it unused) and Aroden delivered smack-down on the necromancer.
Note that The Whispering Tyrant (known as Tar-Baphon at that time) was simply an epic level necromancer, not a nigh-immortal lich at this point.
You arn't far off though. When The Whispering Tyrant rose up in 3203 AR as an undead, he wanted a rematch to get his revenge. For some reason, Aroden never accepted the challenge. So, he went off and invaded Ustalav with an army of orcs/undead and enslaved the nation for centuries. Shame on Aroden I admit (although the lich was felled by one of Aroden's artifacts).
To be honest, you are sort of right. Aroden was something of a failure. Even so, many great legends are ultimately losers and failures.
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I dont know, honestly I've never found him all that interesting except for two things. One the whole Starstone and last member of a race thing, but I also feel like he is really talked up, but really didn't do much. Also the fact that another human(ish) deity that is dead and also that there is so much world changing things going on with him either dying or disappearing, but it is purley outside what players could have any influence in first hand.
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Aroden seems about fifty times more relevant to the setting than the elf-goddess Calistria or the dwarf-god Torag, neither of which ever built the biggest city in the world, made themselves into gods, or brought about a means for other mortals to become gods, including the god of beer.
Aroden's death led to massive upheavels. Would Calistria's death lead to the death of prophecy, natural disasters and / or entire nations devolving into diabolatry? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It's not like elves have that big a footprint on Golarion, compared to humans. They were gone for ages, after all, and none of their neighbors cared enough to colonize their homeland.
But be truthful, would he stir half as much interest in you if he was still alive and not a "forbidden" choice for clerics?
So now anyone who likes something you don't is being untruthful?
Yeesh.
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I did not say that. Aroden is far from the only "good" god in Golarion's history, but none of the others combined seem to have anywhere near the player interest in this venue.
Well, gosh, it's a thread entitled 'Cult of Aroden.' I wouldn't expect 'this venue' to be about players interested in discussing the faiths of other gods.
There have been threads on Lamashtu, Pharasma, Desna, etc. and anyone is free to start more threads on topics they find more appropriate, and post to them instead of posting to threads about topics they find objectionable that have 'Aroden' right in the title.
And I'm sure that the reason is that Aroden is forbidden fruit as far as clerical choices are concerned ... only because he's dead. If he was alive it would be "Ho hum.... another goody two shoes god.... Next!"
Aroden wasn't good. He was neutral. I would expect anyone who is intrigued by the character would know better than to call him a 'goody two shoes.'
And, in any event, *why* some posters find him interesting isn't terribly relevant. In addition to being none of my business what motivates the interest (or disinterest) of others, and not my place to decide that their reasons for liking (or disliking) a particular deity, nation, organization, etc. are valid or invalid, I don't really see a reason for being interested as being more or less relevant than another.
Even *if* someone likes Aroden because he's the 'forbidden fruit' option, I don't see rooting for the underdog or asking 'what if?' as something worthy of your disapproval.
I don't see the benefit of discouraging people from exploring possibilities or engaging their creativity.
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It's not really that creative when you're walking the same path that a score have walked before. There are a lot of *other* gods that haven't seen a sqawk of mention on these boards... Now THERE'S room to be creative.
I don't see the benefit of discouraging people from exploring possibilities or engaging their creativity.
Posters: Hey guys, let's have a thread about X, where we come up with ideas to use for X for those players that like X!
LazarX: X is bad.
Stop that.
I dont know, honestly I've never found him all that interesting except for two things. One the whole Starstone and last member of a race thing, but I also feel like he is really talked up, but really didn't do much. Also the fact that another human(ish) deity that is dead and also that there is so much world changing things going on with him either dying or disappearing, but it is purley outside what players could have any influence in first hand.
That's more a question of personal taste, I respect that. I completely agree that the whole thing is frustratingly outside the influence of players, which is why I REALLY want to see an Adventure Path which explores why/how Aroden has died. I guess he's talked up because (In game) of his relevence to humanity and the Inner Sea and (Out of game) the paizo writers seem to be more obsessed then I am! :)
But be truthful, would he stir half as much interest in you if he was still alive and not a "forbidden" choice for clerics?
I admit there is an element of 'you want what you can't have' but I would still have to say yes. As Set has explained, Aroden has played a huge role in shaping the campaign world, and there is more mystery surround him than just about any other deity. Plus, he's the patron deity of humanity, the most common (playable) race in Golarion. So... why shouldn't I be interested?
It's not really that creative when you're walking the same path that a score have walked before. There are a lot of *other* gods that haven't seen a sqawk of mention on these boards... Now THERE'S room to be creative.
I actually think having a cult to a dead god is more interesting than a cult to a living one. I play a semi-insane (Wisdom 7) paladin/bard of Aroden in PFS who is shocked at any mention that Aroden might not be providing him with divine/arcane spells. It makes for interesting and often amusing roleplaying. Now, I COULD do a paladin of Iomedae, but that just creates a fairly mundane, even stereotypical, paladin IMO.
But hey, it's not just Aroden. I'm thinking of trying out a 'cleric' (actually a sorcerer with an archetype from 'Inner Sea Magic') of Razmir just for kicks.
It's not really that creative when you're walking the same path that a score have walked before. There are a lot of *other* gods that haven't seen a sqawk of mention on these boards... Now THERE'S room to be creative.I actually think having a cult to a dead god is more interesting than a cult to a living one. I play a semi-insane (Wisdom 7) paladin/bard of Aroden in PFS who is shocked at any mention that Aroden might not be providing him with divine/arcane spells. It makes for interesting and often amusing roleplaying. Now, I COULD do a paladin of Iomedae, but that just creates a fairly mundane,...
I think Neil hit the nail on the head here- at least for this case (and my God, I leave this thread for two days and there are way more responses than I expected!)... the player doesn't want to create "yet another mundane character", so yeah the "dead god" angle gives them some grist for their creative mill (as it were). Once you have been in RPGs for a while, I think you start to want to have something different to play.
And @LazarX, yes, I know there are threads on this message board already delving into Aroden- but this player doesn't know about them because not everyone who plays Pathfinder is active on this board. I was hoping for some fresh ideas on a "Cult" of the specific god and in particular the possibility it was a sham perpetrated for political ends.
Again, thank you everyone for some great ideas presented here.
Hey, I mentioned the Harbingers of Fate, too! Oh, also linkified for edification, or whatever. :D
So, hey, someone asked what Aroden did?
* drove a demon lord back into the Abyss, while he was still not a god (his later resurrgence does not negate the fact that Aroden literally single-handedly staved off the incursion of the Abyss for over 1,000 years... probably well over 2,000 years.
* founded Taldor as a living community, as a bastion/inheritor state of ancient Azlant
* ended the age of darkness, by himself
* raised the starstone from the depths of the see (somehow linked to the above)
* created the most powerful, prosperous, and enduring city on the face of the planet (or at least this half)
* abandoned his "safe" so-called "worshipers" (Taldor) when they lost his principles for those new up-and-coming guys, Chelaxians, just to shake his people into action and make sure they were keeping to his will
* went around the world for literally thousands of years on end disguised as: beggar, thief, fisherman, hunter, shepherd, farmer, soldier, merchant, tailor, craftsman, artist, and scholar; each of which he used in subtle or not-so-subtle ways to guide, impact, and alter the lives of his various worshipers, allies, and fiends.
* instead of taking on everything by himself, often delegated (usually well), and encouraged his worshipers to do things for themselves
* creating a well-thought-out sacred text that was a basis for humanity's "starting point" for culture and civilization and history
* succeeded in taking a bunch of punk primitives (humans) who'd lost everything due to the Aboleth-caused disaster, and restored them to the greatest empire in the world, even though they'd lost all of their advantages (besides him) in said disaster (ranging from coherent civilization, to wealth, to power, to racial benefits, to other things as well) - succeeding so well, in fact, that even when their patron is dead, they still retain their place of near-primacy on this planet, despite dealing with the alien uber-magics of elves, the incredible fortitude of dwarves, and the wild fey capriciousness of gnomes (though, to be honest, that last one might be helping them maintain their primacy...)
But, yeah, other than that, I guess he really didn't do too much. I mean, expecting him to be constantly doing things is what we need to do, right?
Like Calistria! She... um... taught her people how to be mean?
Or Torag! He... gave his people a vision, once.
Um.
Or Irori! He... ascended. Once.
Oh, wait: Nethys! He... also ascended once. It drove him crazy, though.
Or Serenrae! She defeated Rovagug! ... once. (with the help of the devil)
Or... um, that gnome deity! She did something! She established the svirfneblin! ... once.
I mean, sure, in Ydersius' heyday, he was more active, personally, (maybe, that's kind of debatable) but look how that turned out for him (hint: it's kind of embarrassing).
I'm really not sure what all people want Aroden to have done more of to "be interesting". He's like the most active god we know of on Golarion - he had a mortal life we don't know too much about, an immortal life we know some about (spanning thousands of years in which he aided civilization starting up across the Inner Sea region), and personally altered history numerous times. He failed a few, but, man, did he take more chances than anyone else I can think of.
I mean, I could ask what the Greeks have done for us in the last thousand years or so, but that in no way negates their (ridiculously) long-lasting contribution to the Western culture that they had with their culture. Democracy is great!
Same thing with Rome. Man, I sure do like roads!
Or, what about Spain? You know: living in America is pretty swell! Certainly they have nothing to do with that! Oh, wait! They do! (Accident and historical atrocities aside.)
I don't know, guys, Aroden's done more than most deities have in their much-longer existences. Sure, other deities have done things, and they're really cool! Even the ones I mention above! But Aroden is far more "human" than many of them (?!), because he has a really active life and history, but he's also more grandiose and epic than many of the later ascended deities. And his death is a pretty big and important mystery. That and giving the world roads, a unified base culture, language, and lifting the veil of darkness from the face of the world is pretty awesome in itself. The stuff like fending off the Abyss for a couple thousand years and smacking down a nasty lich is pretty cool too, I guess. I don't exactly see Iomedae doing any of that (even if she is a pretty cool gal).
EDIT: also, a list of (minor) deities! I dunno, I figured it was a good link to put there.
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TacticsLion--
I didn't know all that about Aroden. Thanks for posting-- good stuff to be aware of.
Heh.
I've got it-- Aroden's not dead, he's just not a God anymore-- Right now, he's walking the world (Golarion) in disguise while his followers are tested, because humanity needs to stand on their own collective feet for a while without the Last Azlanti to tell them what to do.
As others have said, cults are around, they simply are not very large and have no clerics. In time they to will fade as other gods absorb them or they die off. A hundred years is a long time for humans, much less two or three hundred.
Oh that is a good one. another fun one would be what if a Demon lord or something posed as Aroden? That could be fun for a short while.
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In a setting where the gods of the Dark Tapestry are said to have nothing but contempt for their worshippers, and pay no attention to them at all, and people still worship them anyway, I'd imagine the silence of Aroden would be even less of a barrier to entry.
The lack of one specific miracle-using class, the Cleric, in the face of a setting that has Adepts, Oracles, Paladins, Rangers, etc. isn't going to spell the death of anything. Indeed, if the faith had no divine spellcasters at all, it would still have a leg up on real world religion, where, despite living in a world where medical procedures can emulate 'miracles' like allowing the lame to walk, the blind to see and people to even defy death with shots of adrenaline and timely defribillation, several *hundred* churches get by just fine with no miracles at all.
If a Cleric-less cult of Aroden can't work, or even thrive, then somebody ought to tell Razmir that what he's doing in Razmiran is not allowed in this setting, and to cut it out right now. :)
well the thing is most of those faithful have been adsorbed, often actively so. They have been told by his right hand women he is dead. His most faithful have mostly died or been absorbed or lost faith in the last 100 years as they have saw his coming fail, their homeland , his chosen people be ripped apart by war and now in the hand of devil worshipers.
The cults there are are not as large as they could be, often combated by one of the other faiths and in time will wither and die, be absorbed by an active faith or likely to mutate into something far from where it started. Razmir works as he has a hand on it, runs the whole show with an iron fist. something like that could happen, but you would need an iron hand to run it mostly.
The most likely place I see for that to happen is in Sargava. It is a ways off and could die under an invasion or by being overran by natives but if not in time I could see that becoming a haven for Aroden worship, even if in the end the "Aroden" they worship turns out to be very different then the god no one living remembers anyhow.
Hey, Finn, No prob!
Sargava: Eh, Sargava's on the verge of extinction, I'm afraid. Taking a hard look at the place, they don't really have that much keeping them going, and their enemies are just getting too strong. I mean, two cities - one of which is on the verge on its own, the other of which is entirely dependent, both of which are on the verge of being destroyed by racial riots -, a nasty hole of a town who doesn't care who the "ruler" is, and a poorly-run land trail (out of favor for the river trail... run through said nasty hole of a town)? Oh, yeah: also a private ranch (which, incidentally, is run better than the country as a whole, and also is threatened by enemies)! Not lookin' good, guys. If that's a cult's best place... well... that's not going to go so well, I think. That and Iomedae's hecka-popular right now down there amongst the natives (depicted, of course, as a Garundi woman in sensible - read: none - armor and holding a sensible - read: tanned hide - shield, as only stupid, white folks would want to carry that much hot, heavy metal into battle, virtually guaranteeing that you'd drown while being stabbed to death with a hundred spears and dieing of heat stroke at the same time).
Still, I think there are a few places where it might flourish.
As mentioned, certainly within Sargava, Aroden will (and does!) hold as a base amongst the traditionalist nobility.
Perversely, Cheliax would be a perfect place for such things to flourish. (Possibly even suggestion that Aroden became a devil or even conflating Asmodeus and Aroden; alternatively reversing this and having Aroden "ascend" to archon status.) Either way, this would be a great way to "fight the man", so to speak (though the former would be more like, "subvert the man", I guess).
Similarly perversely, the Hell Knights might have that heresy grow in their ranks - this would be especially ironic considering they were rejected by the Arodonites, but sensible because Aroden himself was after their exact objectives, as in, he literally wanted exactly the same things they did (though through a different lens/less extreme).
The River Kingdoms would be a fabulous place for a cult to flourish - look at how far it got Razmir! (Though, admittedly, that's because he's... you know... maintaining it.) Then again, they even worship Hanspur and Gyronna, so, you know, they haven't exactly shown the best taste in divinities.
In the World Wound and amongst the Shining Crusade - in the midst of the Inheritor's own church - there might be a surprisingly strong desire for the one who successfully staved all this off from before.
Taldor probably still has some hold-overs from long ago (again seeking to reclaim the "glory days").
Anywhere humans are oppressed by others - hey, stop laughing, it happens, you don't know!
That's about the strongest possibilities list, as I can see them, though I can easily have missed something.
Hey, I mentioned the Harbingers of Fate, too! Oh, also linkified for edification, or whatever. :D...
You know, I almost made a list *exactly* like this, then remembered arguing about Aroden has nothing to do with what Whiskey wanted/asked.
As far as I know, there has been very little mentioned about any Ardoen based cults, closing thing, off the top of my head, is the prieviously mentioned Harbringers.
One thing I will mention, something that has always astounded me is the singular worship that is often portrayed by a large number of players. I mean, this isn't the real world where people are part of one religion. In Pathfinder, the mortals all KNOW that there are multiple gods, so wouldn't it make sense that they worship multiple gods? For instance, say there is a Cleric who has strong beliefs in Freedom. We'll name him William. William travels the world fighting back against tyrany, freeing slaves, and liberating the oppressed. Who does he worship? Why Cayden Cailean AND Desna.
With a polythestic mentality in mind, it certainly isn't unbelievable that, though they may have had to devote themselves to a new god, many Clerics still actively worship Aroden as the world once new him. Sure, many have become clerics of Iomedae, or other gods, but that doesn't mean they don't still pray to Aroden. Especially if they're human, with Aroden being the driving force behind human civilization, I'm sure many humans seek guidance from both him, and the God they most venerate.
As for putting this into practice, my longest running PF character is a Wizard that most venerates Gozreh, but actively worships Torag, and Irori, and pays his respects to Nethys.
Similarly perversely, the Hell Knights might have that heresy grow in their ranks - this would be especially ironic considering they were rejected by the Arodonites, but sensible because Aroden himself was after their exact objectives, as in, he literally wanted exactly the same things they did (though through a different lens/less extreme).
This feeds into the situation I have... the player would be playing a Paladin of Aroden, eventually becoming a Hellknight working from within to overthrow Thrune rule and spread the "word of Aroden's return". It's a hell of a row to plow, but there it is.
Uh-oh, Tels. You've stepped into it, now!
Short, short version (in official published Golarion): clerics =/= having more than one patron. Any other divine class other than clerics, this is fine. Anyone else, anyone at all, other than a cleric, can have more than one "patron" (in theory). Clerics can worship multiple gods, but can only have one "core" god - their patron from whom they receive spells.
That said, if anyone wants something other than that, James Jacobs actually encourages that sort of thing at the home table. So that's great for house rules. I use them! :)
Also, I'm glad you liked the list! I figured putting it there was topical because it also gave some insights into why someone might continue to worship him so long after he's gone. :)
Similarly perversely, the Hell Knights might have that heresy grow in their ranks - this would be especially ironic considering they were rejected by the Arodonites, but sensible because Aroden himself was after their exact objectives, as in, he literally wanted exactly the same things they did (though through a different lens/less extreme).This feeds into the situation I have... the player would be playing a Paladin of Aroden, eventually becoming a Hellknight working from within to overthrow Thrune rule and spread the "word of Aroden's return". It's a hell of a row to plow, but there it is.
That sounds pretty great, actually!
One other idea that you might want to incorporate is the theme of theGodclaw - it's quite possible that this paladin wishes to replace Asmodeus with Aroden in the Godclaw order!
Do you know the history of the Hellknights, by the by, and why they're called that?
Short and sweet version:
* Guy sees a miscarriage of justice
* (Local) church of Aroden stands by said corruption
* Guy takes matters into his own hands, with a posse
* (Local) church rebukes him and his followers
* He rejects them and creates his own - godless - order of "justice"
* Called the "Hell Knights" by the local fearful populace because of their rejection of the church and "bad" PR
* They wear the banner with pride instead
* The Hell Knights are born
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@Tacticslion- Thanks! This highlights that I need to do the research in the appropriate guides (or make the player do it). Sounds like it just might work.
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Perhaps it has been suggested earlier, but perhaps you could have an Oracle that is a worshiper of Aroden.
Oh, you could definitely have an Oracle that is a worshiper of Aroden. Might not actually be Aroden that is granting the Oracle his powers, but the Oracle himself doesn't have to know that!
Whiskey Jack, psssssst. Found some links you might want, though they're sadly lacking in history of the order as a whole.
Hellknights
(Just the basics)
Order of the Godclaw
(Devoted servants of lawful deities, the one I was talking about before)
Order of the Pike
(Monster-hunters, probably pretty great for PCs, as an alternate order!)
Order of the Crux
(Crazy, dead guys rejected by the rest of the Hellknights - great antagonists!)
Also, Finn, good point!
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Perhaps it has been suggested earlier, but perhaps you could have an Oracle that is a worshiper of Aroden.
Specific Mysteries could even be designed for that sort of thing, like Justice or Omens.
A 'divinity of man' Mystery would also be a neat option for both Arodenites and for a version of Rahadoum that actually discourages actualy god-worship, and not like, atheist Rangers, for casting 'divine' spells.
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If Aroden left a few bits and pieces of his divinity behind before moving on, perhaps some of them could serve as vestiges for binders, offering another class possibility for people that would keep Aroden cults a-going.
Those vestiges, having been shaken loose from the actual Aroden, might reflect very different aspects of that god too, going in very different directions and possibly leading some of those cults into conflict with each other. (I don't htink I'd set one of them up as a straight-up Zarus analogue, but there's probably no shortage of humans that would be eager to go in that direction)
Also there's that whole shadowy minion of Pharasma who looks strangely like Aroden and all...just throwing that out there :P