I'm looking to build a Starsoul Sorcerer for an upcoming game. This will be the first time I've played a dedicated spellcaster before and I'm curious how I could make this build work well. Here are the basics I'm working with:
Lvl 4 Human Sorcerer (Starsoul Bloodline)
Str - 10, Dex - 14, Con - 10, Int - 14, Wis - 15, Cha - 19
22 health
12 touch AC
Those ability scores are what I rolled, plus modifiers for age (old) and including the +2 for being human. The health has also been pre-rolled to lvl 4. I'm interested in a build that focuses on assisting the party in battle (Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, Ranger, various NPCs) and doing what extra damage I can. I believe anything in the CRB, APG, UC and UM is fair game. I appreciate any advice I can get. :)
|
1: Never start with a 10 Con Ever. Min starting Con for any character I make is 14. It dose make a difference at higher level play.
2: Why Starsoul? If it's for RP reasons keep it. Other wise there are much better bloodlines.
3: Feats? Traits? Skills?
4: If you want a true support caster. Play a bard they are a wonderful class. They just have a bad rep.
A good idea of what you want can go along way. And will focus advice given on the build. From what I know so far. The bard will do what you want much better then a sorcerer.
This is a very common mistake. Total mod for old age.
-3 STr - 3 Dex - 3 Con +2 Int +2 Wis +2 Cha
So your starting stats where? 13 17 13 12 13 16(14+2human) If thats the case moving the dex and cha and you can have a starting Cha of 22.
The effects of each aging step are cumulative. However, none of a character's ability scores can be reduced below 1 in this way.
1 At middle age, –1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
2 At old age, –2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
3 At venerable age, –3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis
1: Starting stats were 13 15 13 12 13 17, age put them at 10 12 10 14 15 19, human +2 back into Dex for 10 14 10 14 15 19. I could basically flip what I did for Dex and Con so Con would wind up with the 14, but I was attempting to keep my AC up a bit.
2: Starsoul because it best fit the character I had in mind, as did the choice of the Sorcerer class. Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot a bit, but between the other PCs (and the various NPCs our DM has for us to drag along if we like) our party is pretty well rounded as is. I can afford to play around a bit.
3: Honestly feats, traits, skills and spells are all things I could use some help with. I've been over all of them a few times now and, while I've had some ideas, I'm extremely interested in hearing the ideas from players more experienced than myself before I make any final decisions - hence my posting here. :)
The ultimate goal here is to develop a lvl 4 Starsoul Sourcerer who's fairly useful and fun to play.
I had considered putting the +2 into CHA, but as I mentioned I was worried about my AC being too low. If it's still more worthwhile to get my CHA up to 21 then I'll go ahead and do that.
Why Starsoul? One of the main reasons is that the bloodline doesn't come with some of the evil taints, odd interbreedings, and physical alterations that many of the other bloodlines contain. The character is just a nice old man who gets magical powers from space. Is that too much to ask? :)
I'm not looking for any kind of "ultimate" anything. Just looking for some suggestions on how to flesh out a lvl 4 Starsoul Sorcerer build.
Basically at this point the Starsoul bloodline is set in stone. I'm really just curious what others think might be some good feats/spells/traits to take. Lookin' for advice here, not a perfect build. Still, thanks for the help so far. It's gotten me to think a bit more deeply about my decisions.
+1 AC isn't worth more spells and higher save DCs.
Stat priority for a Sorcerer is generally CHA, CON, [Dex/Str/Int/Wis].
For my tastes that would be CHA, CON, INT, DEX, STR, WIS (I love my skill ranks).
For a floating +2, always put it into your highest stat, to put it over the top for free. It's far better "point buy economy".
I'd talk feats & spells, but I gadda go. Mebbe later.
Charisma does two things for you. One is give you bonus spells, you want that. The other is higher save dcs, you might really want that.
The deciding factor is your spells. Spells cast on others have saves. Spells cast on your allies usually don't. If you most cast spells on allies, or spells with attack rolls, the dexterity might be a better choice.
****IMHO, you can have a fun character without 100% optimization.***
What did your old man do before he got powers from space? That might help with skills. Since you will have a good cha, you may want to grab a cha skill or two. Linguistics is also good, diplomacy isn't much good if you don't speak the language.
And Use Magic Device is a very strong skill, especially if you're going to get up to 7th level and beyond.
What kind of powers? You don't have to pick out all of your spells, but think about theme here. Sorcerers have powers like superheroes, and I find them more fun when they go together.
So, is outer space terrifying, in a Lovecraft way? Are we after the power cosmic, like the Silver Surfer? Interested in a darkness theme, or the grandeur of the celestial spheres?
Give us a bit more to work with, and we can help you more.
My 2 cents, if you are going to be rolling with NPCs on your side, in addition to an already large party, you may not need summons, but battlefield control are amazing. Focus on spells like silent image, grease, black tentacles, entangle, slow, haste. In my personal experience ...
Summons > Control > Debuff > Buff
Defined as: Summons are spells like Summon Monster
Control are spells like Sleet Storm grease that interfere with basic mechanics like Line of Sight, Movement, and so on, or mislead in general, Silent Image.
Debuff are spells like slow that hamper the enemy directly.
Buffs are spells like Haste that increase your party combat effectiveness. be warned, as the only caster, you WILL BE asked to be the Haste Vend-o-Tron 5000.
Although I agree that there is no must have perfect spell list I will point out that some spells are MUCH better than others.
Summon Monster spells that summon things with SLAs (Spell Like Abilities) are always a boon. Summon 3 lantern Archons with Summon Monster V (can start getting 1 at a time with Summon Monster III, see Core Rulebook). Lantern Archon I casts Aid on the BSF (Big Stupid Fighter) Lantern Archon II readiess Aid and waits for BSF to be hit, causing a loss of the temporary HP granted by Atchon I's Aid spell, then the Archon II recasts Aid on BSF, Archon III has been holding action until Archon II casts, and now readies Aid.... rinse and repeat while summoning more archons...
Oh no! The BSF went down and no one with healing can risk the run through 5 AOOs to get to him! Summon up your Lantern Archons and make them fly through all the BBEGs repeatedly to draw all the AOOs, and now anyone can walk on up, oh and the Archon casts Aid to bring the BSF to positive numbers and or stabilize at a minimum.
Oh No! there is a BBEG on their side with a +4 claymore of PC decapitation! Summon up archons, they rush in, touch the sword, and teleport away with it! (Will save on behalf of the BBEG to keep the sword, but always HILARIOUS when it works)
Oh No! The BBEG has DR 10/ (Just like those annoying Archons) and on top of that he is wearing a ring of Fire Resistance 20, so even if he manages to FAIL a reflex save, he still takes - damage from the wizards fireball! Bummer! Wait, Summon up the Archons! 2d6 damage is not a lot, but it BYPASSES ALL DR, and you can summon all you want! The Celestials will make more!
Long story short, always look for spells that do more than just one thing as a summoner. You get a limited number of spells known at each level so make them count.
Think that door/hallway/chest is trapped? Summon a celestial ape to open it/walk down it. Need to know what is on the other side of the door? The earth elemental can earth glide under it, take a look, and report back. Need healing? Summon an Azata. Didn't learn Glitterdust? Summon a salt mephit. Didn't learn Stinking Clout? Summon a water mephit. Didn't learn Protection from Evil? Summon a Hound Archon . . .
(BTW ALWAYS learn Stinking Cloud!!!!)
The end.
Aside from what I've already put forward I guess the most I can give you is a bit of a history for the character. So here goes:
"Herman Ferman (sounds great when he announces himself in his old man voice) has a family history littered with those who had a passion for stargazing. At some point in the past one of his ancestors reached out so far in his exploration of the heavens that some of that starry magic was imparted upon him. Since then that beautiful and sometimes violent magic has presented itself in various ways down the family line. In Herman it has presented as raw magical ability (as well as a hobby-like interest in the celestial bodies).
His abilities presented at a young age and in his early twenties he joined a group of adventurers dedicated to maintaining the peace in the lands around the small town in which they lived. Of course he eventually settled down, opened a small magic shop (simple potions, things that were of general use to the townsfolk) with his wife and had two sons.
Now Herman's wife has passed and his sons have grown, one of whom has taken over the shop. Herman has found himself alone and troubled by a "feeling in his bones" that something dark is coming. Never having been one to sit around and wait Herman has left his home and learned of a group of adventurers that have been doing some good of late. Though he'll have to re-learn some of the sorcery he knew in his youth, Herman will soon be asking to join these adventurers so he might face the darkness head-on rather than sitting by himself in his old home."
I was definitely going to take Use Magic Device as one of my skills. Also gonna take Knowledge Arcana to round out a bit of a gap in our party knowledge. Probably a few ranks in Appraise and Bluff (makes sense if he used to be a shop owner). Don't need perception as two of our party already have insane numbers there. Beyond that I'm open for advice on skills.
I'd like to keep my spells fairly balanced. I don't need tons of damage, some would be nice. Weakening enemies and making them vulnerable is a definite plus. A few utilitarian spells to round things out would be good.
Feats I'm really stuck on. Do I go for survivability, maximizing my spell abilities...what? Beyond Eschew Materials I believe I have 3 feats to choose (lvl 1 feat, human feat, and lvl 3 feat)
@Jus me - Thank you! That was all incredibly helpful as well as quite amusing.
Np, Toughness +3 Hp at level 1, +1 HP at levels 4+ (basically 1 HP per level) you don't really need to be the party skill monkey, so I would take the 1 HP per level for preferred Class Sorcerer. As mentioned above by LazarX you are not a wizard, so you can't really afford to go broad cloth on your spells, much better off to focus on multi effects, so skip fireball, and learn Pyrotechnics, Area of Effect damage as needed -OR- great debuff options.
Side Note:
Summons do NOT dismiss Invisibility, so go invisible, and summon away is always a good defensive maneuver.
If you can handle a level dip (my apologies as I appear to be a compulsive level dipper) - consider Oracle of Lore - might just fit your concept, and ...
Sidestep Secret (Su): Your innate understanding of the universe has granted you preternatural reflexes and the uncanny ability to step out of danger at the very last second. Add your Charisma modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) to your Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Your armor's maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma instead of your Dexterity.
that should not only fortify the defenses you were worried about, but will also give you access to Clerical spells (though limited) and through that, Clerical spell trigger items without having to deal with the use Magical Device.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Human Starsoul Sorcerer eh?
Looking at the theme, and the class in general, here's what I'd like to suggest: Shadows and Energy and other space stuff... shadows being the void of space, energy being the stars themselves.
So for your spells known regarding the void, I recommend looking out for such things as Shadow Walk, Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation. This gives alot of versatility, which Sorcerers can really benefit from - one spell known suddenly has 10 or more uses. Even Shadow Walk is multi-use; it can be used for fast travel, or for travel to the plane of shadow, or as a Save-Or-Be-Dragged-And-Abandoned-In-Another-Plane touch spell.
For spells known regarding energy, some classics like Fireball or Pyrotechnics are fun. Anything which can blind someone, or evocations which make good use of your dazzling bloodline arcana.
For other spells, consider some staples like Fly. Even spells which aren't obviously thematic can be described as such: Shield can be a magnetic or gravity field, magic missile can look like a handful of tiny meteors, etc. Haste can be "local quantum acceleration"... y'know.
Spells to avoid: Anything which you'll rarely use (buy a scroll), and anything which you'll use, but doesn't need high CHA or caster level to be useful (buy a wand).
Feats... I always suggest Heighten Spell and Extend for any Sorcerer; if you burn up all your 3rd level slots on Haste and Fireball, you can still use 4th level slots to cast 3rd level spells... so why not get more out of them while you're doing so? Also, Heighten Spell lets you make lower level save-or-X spells more relevant; Heighten a Color Spray to a 5th level slot, and now they have to save against a 5th level spell. Extend Spell is simply great for buffs, utility and battlefield control.
Aside from those, feats for Sorcerers are kind of meh, which lets you have some flexibility. Some classic staples could be Improved Initiative (going first is always good), Spell Focus, even Quickdraw to let you use wands more efficiently. I guess I don't have much of an opinion on this.
One thing: DONT CRAFT. Your spells known list is so limited that you'd be wasting time. If you want to make yourself useful in down-time, learn Wall of Stone ("Summon Sci-Fi Monolith!") and build a tower... or something using a perma- or -insta- spell with lasting effects. I always like to have a couple "end-of day slotburn" spells as a sorcerer, once I've picked my "must haves".
Skills... Obviously keep your spellcraft maxed. I love social skills (Intimidate and Bluff - both are good), and Fly can give you some good advantages once you have a spell which lets you do so.
@Jus me - Toughness was something I was seriously considering. If Herman here turns out to be as physically weak as I think he might I could use the extra durability.
@james maissen - actually our ranger seems to be the fellow doing most of the talking. He doesn't have the best social scores, but beyond the typical NPC conversation we find ourselves killing things more often than talking with them. A few of our members are of the "let's bust down the door and take heads for trophies" variety - which has proven exciting.
@Kerebus - Sidestep Secret sounds amazing. You have a pretty strong argument for multi-classing here. I just have to decide if the 20th level of the Starborn bloodline is worth trading for it.
@Malignor - Just about everything you've said is tremendously useful. Thank you.
In general, SoS (Save or Suck, aka Save or Die) suck because if it fails, you wasted a spell, and you wasted a round. Suffocation is an exception because it is 3 consecutive saves. I always suggest saving feats and buying meta-magic rods. Extend saves spell slots b/c your spells last twice as long. . . Widwn is also great for doubling the area of effect on a spell.
On Social Skills (Cha based ones) it would be prudent to take traits that increase and make class skills out of the skills you want.
If you plan on summoning/controlling, Initiative is a prime stat.
Adopted Trait to get +2 init elven trait something of Old, or select some other +2 init trait
Reactionary +2 init trait
Feats:
Level 1 Toughness AND Spell Focus Conjuration
Level 4 Augment Summoning (give all your summons +4 con, +4 Str)
Level 5 Improved Init +4 Init
Eschew Materials - not too great, spell component pouches are cheap, and the more difficult mats are not eschew able anyway.
If this is your first sorceror, I'm going to advise against summoning. You need to have handy all of the statistics for everything you might summon, and it makes taking your turn more complicated as well.
Yes, it's a powerful tactic, but it's also more demanding of you as a player.
You also NEED to like your spells, since you'll be casting from a narrow list of spells over and over. If it isn't fun to you, that's as much of a problem as "this spell isn't effective"
I might take a look at magic missile, glitterdust, darkness, and eventually reverse gravity as 'space' spells.
Oh, yeah... If you are going to be a summoner do the following:
1) Make index cards of your potential summons. As many as you think you would ever have on the field at a given time. On each card write the summoned creatures full stats, attacks, cmb, cmd, etc. everything in the Bestiary. Next to the basic stats, write in any template changes (e.g. celestial/fiendish) Next to that, write down any changes caused by feats like Augmented Summoning. I do base stats in black, celestial template in blue, and the augmented summoning in pink. Put the reference pages on each card for anything contained in that card. You may need to be able to explain in a hurry why your Giant Ant has xx stat or characteristic, so having a breakdown saves everyone time, no digging through 4 books, tracing your feats, then shrugging and saying "I know that is how it is, I just don't know why.."
2) Make a space for some kind of designation on the card, whether space for a number, color, or identifiable squiggly, doesn't matter, just need to be able to match the card to the base it belongs to..
3) Visit your local hobby store and buy 10 or so plastic bases.
4) Buy the little round garage sale price stickies at your local walmart, staples, target, whatever
5) Use the stickies to label the bases to match your summon cards as you summon
--- NOTE, your summons will change regularly, so making the bases indelible just make the cards match the bases as you go is easiest. example, I have 10 blue sticker bases, numbered 1-10, 5 each of red, yellow, and white each numbered 1-5. When I summon 1d3 Lantern Archons, I roll my d3, and get a 2. I mark 2 lantern cards as B1 and B2, and place them on the mat.
6) when you summon monster x, put base x on the board.
7) Memorize all your summonable monsters stats, complete with upgrades from augmented summoning. Don't make your friends wait 2 minutes every turn while you look up what a lantern archon can do.
8) When it is NOT your turn, plan out your turn so when it is your turn, all you have to do is move your little pawns across the board and roll. Don't wait until your turn to start studying the board.
9) Realize as a summoner, the party you are with is granting you the courtesy of allowing you to indulge one of the most fun game mechanics. In return grant them the respect of:
A) Being better organized than all of them put together,
B) Being better prepared than all of them put together, and
C) Moving through your turn more efficiently than all of them put together.
10) The Cardinal Rule: IF YOU HAVE TO LOOK IT UP IN THE BESTIARY BEFORE YOU SUMMON IT, YOU DONT KNOW IT WELL ENOUGH TO SUMMON IT THIS SESSION. Go home, research it, make the cards, summon next session.
Once again, thanks to everyone for all the input so far. It's given me much more to think about, but at the same time I've also acquired a better sense of direction.
And yeah, summoning sounds awesome, but it doesn't quite fit what I'm going for. It also sounds pretty demanding for a newbie sorcerer like myself. Though I'll definitely have to give it a whirl sometime down the road.
@Kerebus - Sidestep Secret sounds amazing. You have a pretty strong argument for multi-classing here. I just have to decide if the 20th level of the Starborn bloodline is worth trading for it.
Is your game planning on going up to 20th level? most I've played in don't or even if they do they don't spend more than 3 sessions there.
I would recomend an amazing boost to your AC and REF save, as well as 4 orisons, 3+, 1st level divine spells per day, and adding 2(+CLW) to your spells known. All that at 1st level, go sorcerer from there, you now don't have to worry about a high dex and have some basic healing for emergencies (at low levels anyways).