Use Magic Device as rogue for Wizard / Sorcerer scroll

[pong3d]

A party member who is a wizard gave me a 1st level scroll he created. My intelligence is only 10. Do I have to emulate the ability or can I use my charisma score (16) since it is also a sorcerer spell?

[Ravingdork]

Ooh. A tricky one! I too, eagerly await an answer to this.

[Midnight_Angel]

Let's increase the difficulty a bit:

I got my hands on arcane scroll of CLW. Must I emulate Int (as per the witch spell), or Cha (as per the Bard spell)?

I got my hands on a clerical scroll of CLW. Do I have to emulate Wis to be able to UMD it, or can I also use Cha? (after all, I might want to cast it as a Paladin)

Saying 'you have to use the spellcasting stat of the one who created it' adds a whole new lot of bookkeeping into the game, forcing not only to define any found scroll as arcane or divine, but rather as clerical, bardic, druidic, paladin or whatever. Prize question: How many scrolls in ready-made adventures did you come across that have that distinction?

[Ravingdork]

Rather than deal with all that book keeping, I would default to the standard spellcasting class progression. That is, if the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order. Simply base any ability requirements off of that.

That makes an otherwise complex situation quite easy.

[Starglim]

If you're pretending to be an arcane caster in the first place, you should be able to pretend to be any sort of arcane caster you choose. The rogue can emulate having a sorcerer (or bard) spell list, which means his appropriate ability score is Charisma.

[Callarek]

pong3d wrote:

A party member who is a wizard gave me a 1st level scroll he created. My intelligence is only 10. Do I have to emulate the ability or can I use my charisma score (16) since it is also a sorcerer spell?

I believe it is up to the UMDer which casting stat to use.

Also, oddly enough, you can even decide to use Wisdom as teh casting stat for Arcane scrolls, as there is a Sorcerer bloodline that changes the casting stat for them to Wisdom.

[Midnight_Angel]

Ravingdork wrote:

Rather than deal with all that book keeping, I would default to the standard spellcasting class progression. That is, if the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order. Simply base any ability requirements off of that.

That makes an otherwise complex situation quite easy.

Ah, but what about the new spellcasting classes, such as witch (full progression), summoner and inquisitor (6 progression), and the like? Should one sort them somewhere into the list above (all full progressions, then all 6-progressions, then all 4-progressions), place them at the end of the existing table, or ignore them altogether?

[Melissa Litwin]

Midnight_Angel wrote:

Ah, but what about the new spellcasting classes, such as witch (full progression), summoner and inquisitor (6 progression), and the like? Should one sort them somewhere into the list above (all full progressions, then all 6-progressions, then all 4-progressions), place them at the end of the existing table, or ignore them altogether?

All spells are assumed to be sorc/wizard, cleric, or druid unless specifically shown otherwise. An arcane scroll of cure light wounds is probably assumed to be witch, since they're full progression casters. Spells are assumed to be ranger or paladin only if they are exclusive to that class.

You can emulate/use the stat any class that can cast the spell uses. So for example, a divine scroll of cure light wounds can use Wis (clerics or druids) or Cha (oracles and paladins), while an arcane version can be Cha (bard) or Int (witch).

Basically, UMD is very flexible. Try to be reasonable (just because there's one sorcerer bloodline that uses Wisdom, don't use Wis to cast arcane spells off scrolls), but RAW there's no reason you couldn't do just that.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Number 1) It's too fussy to keep track of what class crafted every scroll everywhere. If a spell appears on a Wizard/Sorc list you can use the better of your Cha or Int when determining whether you have the minimum requisite score.

Number 2) If neither score meets the prerequisite then you may choose to emulate Int or Cha (it makes no difference as your bonus will be Check Result Divided by 5).

Number 3) A second UMD check is needed to Activate the scroll DC 21 in this case.

Done.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Although I must admit, I think keeping track of Arcane/Divine for spells that appear on both lists is lame too.

[Ravingdork]

Yes, letting the UMD skill user to pick which one is another simple method. :)