Alright asked this in another thread and never got an answer so figured I'd make my own.
If i qualify for final embrace and lose my qualification later does the fact that having the feat meets the preqs for the feat allow me to still use it anyways?
What i'm asking is since it grants a constrict ability which is one way to qualify can you still use the feat.
Final Embrace (Combat)
Your coils are particularly deadly, allowing you to constrict opponents of your size or smaller.
Prerequisite: Str 13, Int 3; naga, serpentfolk, or creature that has the constrict special attack; base attack bonus +3.
Benefit: You gain the constrict and grab special attacks. Your constrict attack deals damage equal to your unarmed strike or primary natural weapon melee attack. Further, you can grab and constrict opponents up to your size.
Normal: You can grab and constrict creatures one size smaller than you.
My Eidolon had the feat lost some evolutions in a fight which cost it its constrict evolution.
so nothing?
Yep, silliness indeed but you get to keep it.
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My Eidolon had the feat lost some evolutions in a fight which cost it its constrict evolution.
I was the freelancer who wrote the original turnover for this feat. Here's my take: Since your eidolon lost it's constrict ability, it can no longer use the final embrace feat.
To qualify for a feat you need to meet the prerequisites, and if you lose any of the prerequisites you cannot use the feat until you get the prerequisites back. You don't actually lose the feat, you just can't benefit from it.
The 4 prerequisites for final embrace are:
1. Str 13+
2. Int 3+
3. BAB +3 or more
4. You must be a naga, a serpentfolk, or a creature with the constrict special attack.
Your eidolon lost prereq #4, so it can't use final embrace again until it gets it's constriction ability back.
My Eidolon had the feat lost some evolutions in a fight which cost it its constrict evolution.I was the freelancer who wrote the original turnover for this feat. Here's my take: Since your eidolon lost it's constrict ability, it can no longer use the final embrace feat.
To qualify for a feat you need to meet the prerequisites, and if you lose any of the prerequisites you cannot use the feat until you get the prerequisites back. You don't actually lose the feat, you just can't benefit from it.
The 4 prerequisites for final embrace are:
1. Str 13+
2. Int 3+
3. BAB +3 or more
4. You must be a naga, a serpentfolk, or a creature with the constrict special attack.Your eidolon lost prereq #4, so it can't use final embrace again until it gets it's constriction ability back.
The problem is the feat actually gives him a constrict and garb special attacks. So he still qualifies.
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But he lost the ability to constrict. So he doesn't qualify. When he lost the ability to constrict, it didn't say 'lost the ability to constrict but kept the ability to constrict from Final Embrace'. He lost the ability to constrict, period. So he no longer qualifies for the feat and cannot use it. The feat may give him the ability to constrict, but he has lost it.
But he lost the ability to constrict. So he doesn't qualify. When he lost the ability to constrict, it didn't say 'lost the ability to constrict but kept the ability to constrict from Final Embrace'. He lost the ability to constrict, period. So he no longer qualifies for the feat and cannot use it. The feat may give him the ability to constrict, but he has lost it.
Though I see where you're coming from, I wouldn't allow it either, RAW says he gets it. The feat actually gives him the "constrict special attack" for some redundant reason, so once he qualified to get it he could still lose the original prerequisite and still qualify. Constrict does not specify how you do it. His summon could just use his muscly arms.
He didn't lose the ability to constrict, constrict has no limitations on how you use it.
Assuming the other prerequisites are met, he still has a constrict and grab special attack. It's incredibly cheesy, but as it is written he keeps it.
The feat is not redundant since it is written for naga or serpent folk that might otherwise not have constrict.
As I understand it, he lost eidolon evolutions, including the constrict evolution. That is, he lost the feature that originally let him take the feat.
The question is whether he should lose access to the feat or whether the feat should be allowed to provide its own prerequisite once taken.
I'd say no, feat cannot be used as a prerequisite for itself.
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I see this as akin to the prestige class requirements rule. If you can't meet the requisites before taking the option, you can't take the option. The same way you can't use the skill points from a prestige class to meet the minimum rank prerequisite is the same way you can't use a feat to qualify for itself.
I'm not sure it's exactly the same thing. Consider the following hypothetical feat.
Even Stronger
Prequisite: Str 19+
Benefit: You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to Strength.
Now, let's say my Strength 20 Fighter takes this feat, boosting him to a Strength score of 21.
Later, he loses 2 points of Strength. What is his Strength score?
Note that in your example, he still has a Str score. While reduced, he still meets the prerequisites.
He only continues to meet the prerequisites if we include the +1 to Str granted by the feat itself.
Unlike in the OPs example, where he no longer meets the prerequisites.
He continues to meet the prerequisites if we include the ability granted by the feat itself.
To me, it's very much the same thing.
You either:
1) Check ALL the character's current abilities and remove any feats they don't currently qualify for,
OR,
2) For each feat, remove the feat, check if the character meets the requirements of the feat without it, then re-apply it if so.
Personally I think we should do #1, in which case the Eidolon's build progression goes like this:
At Point A, the Eidolon has Str 15, Int 6, BAB +5, and the Constrict evolution.
At Point A, the Eidolon meets the requirements for the Final Embrace feat and takes it, taking him to Point B.
At Point B, the Eidolon has Str 15, Int 6, BAB +5, the Constrict evolution, and the Final Embrace feat granting it grab and constrict.
At Point B, the Eidolon meets the requirements for the Final Embrace feat, so it stays on. But now the Eidolon loses the Constrict evolution, taking it to Point C.
At point C, the Eidolon has Str 15, Int 6, BAB +5, and the Final Embrace feat granting it grab and constrict.
At Point C, the Eidolon still meets the requirements for the Final Embrace feat, so it stays on.
Between Point B and Point C, there is never a point when the Eidolon does not meet all the prerequisites for Final Embrace, and so no reason that Final Embrace turns off.