Mind Control vs Justice System

[Muhandis]

When building a city for my campaign I thought it would be a good idea to come up with some laws regarding dangerous magic. My goal was to give the PC's some background as to the populaces mentality and perhaps some story hooks. Then a thought occurred to me. A man stands before the court accused of murder. The judge says, "How do you plead?" The defended replies, "Mind controlled."

What now? If the police cast detect magic and find him clean all he has to do is say, "the spell wore off," or "the caster dismissed the spell so as not to be caught." Does the court find him guilty of the actions he was witnessed taking and convict a potentially innocent man? Not to mention potentially letting the actual murderer get off. Or do we find him innocent and let a potentially guilty man walk free?

Left unchecked I see mind control as having the capacity to unravel society. If there is no way to determine if mind control was a cause then it becomes the perfect crime. Why bother with burn phones when you can have burn goons? How do you know your friend is safe to turn your back on? Can you even confide in your family?

I am not looking for ways to protect against mind control, there are plenty both potent and partial. Knowing of ways to detect active mind control would be nice, but would not guard against the above mentioned scenario. What I am really looking for is if there is a way to tell when mind control has taken place in the past.

[Ringtail]

Sense Motive.

Commune.

To a lesser extent divination, detect thoughts, seek thoughts, and/or zone of truth.

Oh, and discern lies.

[robertness]

A much more likely scenario would be:

Judge: How do you plead?

Defendant: Huh? Where am I? How did I get here? What day is it?

Have a dozen instances of this happen in a fortnight and it looks like the perfect opportunity for an investigation by those meddling adventures, and their gnome.

A key point I'm getting to is a good, subtle mind controller won't even let his meat puppet know he was controlled.

[TarkXT]

If you can get your hands on the mor aldenn setting guide I threw in a couple of pages regarding magic law.

Ultimately any laws regarding magic are going to be byzantine and headache inducing. Afterall lawyers are savvy and mages are clever. Therefore it pays for a government to be flexible in regards to magic and how to deal with it. A court has to be ready to deal with the idea that the person sitting on the bench might not have been the murderer even if he was at the scene gibbering "killthemallkillthemallkillthemall" while wearing his wife's head as a hat. After all possession, mind control, and shapechangers all make life very hard for lawyers and prosecutors.

It makes for huge complications, perhaps even moreso then our own modern court systems.

[Muhandis]

Thanks for the advice. Commune looks useful. "Hey God, was this guy mind controlled/who did it?" Thought it's a bit expensive for common use when charm is 1st level. Not to say that charm will make people kill each other, but could be an abuse of power that gets taken to court a lot in a large city.

What I am really thinking about is that subtle mind controller. How do the cops hunt someone using meat puppets to do his dirty work. How does forensics work aside from using Commune at the scene of every crime and on every suspect. Or is that the only way?

Divination see into the future, not the past. Sense Motive and Zone of Truth detect lies, but cannot show the truth. Seek Thoughts look good for leading a witness, but not if the victim doesn't know they have been controlled.

Perhaps courts and police forces would be regularly staffed by high level clerics. Maybe I should pull out Ultimate Magic and make my own spell.

[Shah Jahan the King of Kings]

You could assume that a "lawyer" wizard researched a spell to do just that.

Have you been accused of a crime you committed while under the effects of

-Suggestion
-Charm Person
-Command Person or Monster
-Demon, Devil, Daemon or incorpreal undead posession
-Alcohol
-Geas or Quest?

Cast message to James Sokolov today! His friendly staff is standing by to help you with your legal conundrums. We don't let any court push us around. Don't take the fall for a Big Bad Evil Guy.

*jamessokolovisnotaccountableforliesuncoveredwithzoneoftruth,detectliesorth epresenceofapaladin*

[robertness]

I wonder if Commune would be allowed as evidence in court. I think it would be considered hearsay, hence inadmissible, in the American legal system. Assuming of course that the deity would give a direct answer and opposing council doesn't dispute that the court ordered cleric isn't properly accredited. However, Commune might give an investigator the ability to narrow down leads so she looks for clues in the right place, questions reliable witnesses, etc.

Oh, golly. If I weren't committed to other projects, I'd be tempted to start a HFCSI (High Fantasy Crime Scene Investigation) police procedural adventure.

[Muhandis]

James sounds like an awesome NPC. I may have to make someone like that in my campaign, at least for laughs. Heck, I could see him being a serious asset to. It would only take a vampires "Dominate at will" a day or two to set up a mafia that had a arm longer than the laws and was total immune to justice.