Channel Energy also states that the cleric must be able to "present" his/her holy symbol.
I think "presenting" means boldly displaying one's holy symbol by holding it up and toward the targets, in a similar fashion to people holding crosses up to vampires in the movies.
I don't know if the rules get any more detailed on what it means to "present," but I'm reading it as being an action (or at least a part of an action).
The paralyzed condition states that a paralyzed character is frozen in place, and unable to move or act.
With that, I think channeling energy while paralyzed would be a no-go.
Note that if you're using hero points, from the APG, I'd allow the expenditure of a hero point to let the cleric exert *just* enough willpower to "present" his holy symbol and get off a channel.
Other than the neboulus Present yes it is but its up to the GM making the call what presents means.
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That does not answer my question. I need to know if Channel Energy is a mental-only action, even if it also does have the specific requirement of a presented holy symbol.
I'd rule that presenting a holy symbol means making a deliberate physical movement to show it to the target. This can't be done while paralysed.
Define "average supernatural ability."
In my original post, I'm showing where I believe that channeling is more than simply mental, due to my understanding of "presenting.". Nebulous is a great term to describe the language of channel energy, but my own personal reading is that presenting is a physical action, thus prevented by the condition of paralysis.
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Is the average supernatural ability mental-only?
The average supernatural ability works as stated in its description.
It doesn't have a verbal, somatic, material or focus spell component, but the user might have to speak or make some other noise, move, use a particular item (as in this case) or fulfil any other requirement the designer chooses to apply.
Is the average supernatural ability mental-only?
No. Mental only actions are things like Knowledge checks. Supernatural abilities require a standard action to activate, unless specifically called out as requiring a different expenditure of actions.
Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Paralyzed creatures cannot act. They cannot take standard actions. They cannot take move actions. They cannot draw a weapon with Quick draw or reload a light crossbow with rapid reload, which are free actions. They cannot cast quickened spells, or immediate spells. They cannot act. They are paralyzed.
Is there a definition for "purely mental actions?"
Psionics in 3.5e (possibly in Pathfinder.. current GM doesn't like psionics, so I don't keep up on them too much), even the full blown powers, are entirely mental. They have "components" (counterpart to verbal, somatic, etc.) that can be limited, but you could be tied down, paralyzed, and gagged, and you could still manifest a power.
I would probably say the actual casting is mental, but you would have to present it with a physical movement in order for it to work.
Pathfinder has no first-party psionics rules.
I'm aware. But Dreamscarred Press does a pretty good conversion of the 3.5e stuff. It might or might not be still entirely mental, but regardless, it's a possible Pathfinder baseline, even if not from Paizo.
I'm aware. But Dreamscarred Press does a pretty good conversion of the 3.5e stuff. It might or might not be still entirely mental, but regardless, it's a possible Pathfinder baseline, even if not from Paizo.
I'm not sure it's a good or reasonable idea to use third party psionics rules as a precedent for Channeling Energy being a non-action to activate. It's unrelated, non-core rules made by a different company entirely. You might as well cite houserules.
I think it's pretty clear that Channeling energy requires a Standard action.
No where does it say that Channeling is a "purely mental action," so I don't know why anyone would assume it was so.
Nowhere does it say that Supernatural abilities are "purely mental actions," so I don't know why anyone would assume that it was so.
Nowhere does it say that Supernatural abilities grant a free infinite fly speed with perfect maneuverability, so I don't know why anyone would assume it was so.
OamuTheMonk:
Your conclusions of what I said are incredibly misconstrued.
Someone asked for a definition of "purely mental actions." I presented one I am aware of. I have no idea if there is a definition of it within any Paizo products. However, it is a relate-able source, even if third-party.
Channeling Energy is a standard action. However, paralyzed status does not prevent standard actions (it even explicitly states you can cast a spell with no components), so that's not even important.
Because part of Channeling is presenting your holy symbol, it is not a "purely mental action." However, if you read the OP, he asked two separate questions. In my first response, I answered both - presenting is a physical (thus blocked by paralysis or any similar effects) but aside from that, there is no language to state any other sort of physical action is required. It can even be argued that "present" doesn't require a physical action, though I definitely don't believe that.
Supernatural abilities might be purely mental yet still require a standard to activate. I don't know why you are trying to separate the two. Casting a spell with no components is a standard that is purely mental, as previously stated in the paralyze definition.
Purely mental action =/= any sort of specific action.
However, paralyzed status does not prevent standard actions (it even explicitly states you can cast a spell with no components), so that's not even important.
Categorically false. Nowhere in the Pathfinder description of paralysis does it say you can cast spells, even spells without components. Casting spells require a standard action. You cannot act while paralyzed.
Here is the full description of the Paralyzed condition, from the SRD:
Paralyzed
A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature—ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares to move through.
Since nowhere is any spell in the Pathfinder Ruleset described as a "purely mental action," you cannot cast spells while paralyzed (although, in future, there may be specific exceptions which will no doubt be described as such). Since Channel Energy is not described as a "Purely mental action," you cannot do it while paralyzed.
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You can do some things while paralyzed, if the supernatural ability does not explicitly state a somatic component. For instance, a witch could be paralyzed and still use the fly hex which is a SU ability.
An oracle of life does not need a holy symbol and threrfore could channel energy while paralyzed.
You can do some things while paralyzed, if the supernatural ability does not explicitly state a somatic component. For instance, a witch could be paralyzed and still use the fly hex which is a SU ability.
An oracle of life does not need a holy symbol and threrfore could channel energy while paralyzed.
Categorically false. Niether of those things can be done while paralyzed, because neither of them are "purely mental actions." Both of them require either a standard or move action, neither of which can be made while paralyzed. A paralyzed creature cannot move or act.
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From http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/glossary.html#paralysis:
ParalysisSome monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell-like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means. Paralysis from poison is discussed in the Afflictions section.
A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action. He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. He may take purely mental actions, such as casting a spell with no components.
A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown.
And once again, I am not saying Channel Energy is a purely mental action. I am classifying its two parts (the act of calling on divine help and presenting the holy symbol) as purely mental and physical, respectively. Obviously if one part cannot be completed, all of it fails, so no, you can't do it while paralyzed. I've said this since my first post, yet you keep acting like I'm saying you can Channel while paralyzed.
EDIT: If the Oracle of Life doesn't need a holy symbol, I would let them Channel while paralyzed, based on my classification.
From http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/glossary.html#paralysis:
And once again, I am not saying Channel Energy is a purely mental action. I am classifying its two parts (the act of calling on divine help and presenting the holy symbol) as purely mental and physical. Obviously if one part cannot be completed, all of it fails, so no, you can't do it while paralyzed. I've said this since my first post, yet you keep acting like I'm saying you can Channel while paralyzed.
ParalysisSome monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell-like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means. Paralysis from poison is discussed in the Afflictions section.
A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action. He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. He may take purely mental actions, such as casting a spell with no components.
A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown.
See, now I'm annoyed because I look like a boob because the PFSRD I use hasn't been errata'ed with that line about component-free spells being "purely mental." It's not in any of my books, it's not in the PFSRD I use, and BLAM blindsided.
So, I'm clearly defeated, but I'm a little sickened by this idea. If component-free casting is "purely mental," any creature with SLA's (no components) or supernatural abilities (no components) can dominate creatures, throw fireballs, exhale petrifying gas, turn invisible, assume gaseous form, and execute a huge variety of offensive tactics that negate paralysis completely. I think this tacked-on line depicting component-free spells as "purely mental" leaves a huge area for abuse. It's bad medicine.
See, now I'm annoyed because I look like a boob because the PFSRD I use hasn't been errata'ed with that line about component-free spells being "purely mental." It's not in any of my books, it's not in the PFSRD I use, and BLAM blindsided.
Nah, that's not why you look like a boob ;)
So, I'm clearly defeated, but I'm a little sickened by this idea. If component-free casting is "purely mental," any creature with SLA's (no components) or supernatural abilities (no components) can dominate creatures, throw fireballs, exhale petrifying gas, turn invisible, assume gaseous form, and execute a huge variety of offensive tactics that negate paralysis completely. I think this tacked-on line depicting component-free spells as "purely mental" leaves a huge area for abuse. It's bad medicine.
I think it's all how you look at it. Spells these days only have five possible components now that XP went away: V(erbal), S(omatic), M(aterial), F(ocus) and DF(ivine Focus).
Verbal means you need to be able to make sounds: you can't if you're paralyzed.
Somatic means you have to move; you can't if you're paralyzed.
Material means there's some fiddly bits that get used up when you cast the spell; if you can't reach them because you're paralyzed, you can't cast the spell. I suppose one might argue that if there's no Somatic components for a Material spell, then you'd just "use" them somehow, but I can't think of any M-only spells (but read on).
Focus and Divine Focus are just material components that don't go away when you cast the spell. See above.
So, if you're paralyzed you can't cast a spell. Period. Right?
Well, almost.
Consider the case where you've used Still Spell and/or Silent Spell as necessary. Now you've got a V and/or S spell that doesn't have V and S any more. So what is the action to cast it?
That's where you get into that "purely mental" ground, I'd say. And I'd also say that if a spell has material components, you can't cast if paralyzed.
Oamu, you were arguing what you believe to be true. Not gonna put a man down because of that.
And as far as the discussion on actions you can take while paralyzed being up for abuse.. meh. You can always houserule it. I'll agree it does make you look at paralysis in a different light.
And gbone, if a spell as ANY components, you can't cast it paralyzed.
Oamu, you were arguing what you believe to be true. Not gonna put a man down because of that.
And as far as the discussion on actions you can take while paralyzed being up for abuse.. meh. You can always houserule it. I'll agree it does make you look at paralysis in a different light.
And gbone, if a spell as ANY components, you can't cast it paralyzed.
Starting a whole new thread. Because of this one line, virtually every monster in the SRD can do a crap-ton of offensive actions while completely paralyzed, since no (Sp) nor (Su) have components (except for a few, like a Harpy's Fascinating song). A paralyzed Efreet can still blast the crap out of you with it's Wall of Fire and Scorching ray SLA's.
And gbone, if a spell as ANY components, you can't cast it paralyzed.
That's how I'd rule it.
I'm just pointing out that it's a valid argument to say "if there's no somatic components to a spell, wouldn't casting the spell just use the components? Otherwise there is a somatic component to the spell, even if it's just reaching for the material components."
But like I said, I wouldn't rule it that way.
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It is sort of a grey area. You could assume if it doesn't say otherwise you CAN use the SLA/Spell/SU when paralyzed or you could go the other way and assume you CAN'T use them.
Not sure there is a clear answer one way or the other by RAW. Our gaming group decided that since SU cannot be interrupted, those would be allowed while SLAs and spells would not. It works for us and saved hours of debates over each case.
AFAIK there are no spells with no components, unless you use both still and silent spell on a particular spell in which case, you win the boy scout prize and get to cast your spell. So spells really don't enter into this discussion for the most part.
I didnt see anything definitive, but we play that SLAs work just like the equivalent sorcerer spell (ie-no material component) but still has the same verbal and somatic component. This means a SLA for a spell with a verbal component is stopped by silence, for instance. I am certainly not claiming this is RAW, just saying that is the interpretation our group uses.
Oamu, I didn't know that bit, either, due to reading the same SRD.
That's why I was wondering if there was a "core" definition of "purely mental actions," (like there is for 'swift action,' for example), or if the term was simply a developer term that was meant to be "common sense," for lack of a better term.
I was guessing it was the latter, which would make the "presenting" aspect the only reason one couldn't channel energy while paralyzed. Then again, I haven't seen any definition of 'presenting,' so it seems that it would come down to a GM call.
Mine would be that presenting is a physical action.