My initial impressions-
Kitsune: They'll probably be pretty good bards/sorcerers/oracles/anything that uses Charisma and won't mind a penalty to str. Natural weapon is cool I guess, shapeshifting is pretty cool; avoiding fights ftw. They're decent as is, not on the level of humans, but that may change depending on how good "kitsune feats" are once we get our hands on DEP. Can't really give a proper evaluation until then.
Nagaji: From what I can tell nagaji are going to make really good, as in worth considering over human good, Paladins, Samurai/Cavaliers, Oracles, and Sorcerers. They're probably THE best race for melee focused bards; +2 Str & Cha, -2 to Int (a common dump stat for the classes they'd favor), natural armor, and a bonus to mind-affecting effects and perception checks are quite nice. Kudos to the naga for creating a servitor race that doesn't suck.
Samsaran: These look really cool, shame they suck. -2 to Con (OUCH!) and a bonus to two stats that you'll rarely see put to use on the same class. That said, mystic theurge won't mind. Racial abilities are all over the place, situational at best, and don't play to the strengths established by ability score bonuses. Only really use I can see for them is they make the stat tax for mystic theurge a lot easier to handle... -2 con though OUCH.
Tengu: Meh. Rogue/Ninja with free Falcata/Katana proficiency might be interesting. -2 to con sucks (again OUCH). I might be missing something here but they just seem resoundingly meh. Not Samsaran meh, but meh.
Wayang: Solid wizard/ninja race. Really cool flavor, and "light and dark" is really situational but by the same token is pretty much an "I win" button against certain monsters. Solid stat bonuses, and pretty good if you play to their strengths. Not amazing, but good.
What does everyone else think?
Methinks you are not giving a free natural attack the respect it should be given.
Cheapy wrote: Methinks you are not giving a free natural attack the respect it should be given. Kitsune's natural attack is 1d4, Tengu's is 1d3. Nothing special. Please explain to me why I should respect it.
Maybe it's the fact that it's a free attack.
Maybe it's because you are never without weapons you are proficient with.
The damage dice of a weapon barely matter. A d8 weapon does all over 2 points more than a d4 weapon, on average. The fact that you have an extra attack, well before anyone else does? That matters.
I'm on Team Natural Attack, but I'll leave that aside so we can get on with bagging on Samsarans.
They are such a neat race, and it is a pity they don't get better abilities. I mean, Lifebound is okay situationaly (especially with the low CON), and Shards of the Past is about the same as other skill boosts, but their magic doesn't come with a DC boost! And then it is done. That is less than any other race, and with nothing particularly strong, unique, or mechanically interesting to boot.
I'd still probably use one at some point, just because of the fluff. I just hope Dragon Empire Primer gives them a few nice feat options or traits to make them mechanically more interesting and useful.
Mort the Cleverly Named wrote: I'm on Team Natural Attack, but I'll leave that aside so we can get on with bagging on Samsarans.
They are such a neat race, and it is a pity they don't get better abilities. I mean, Lifebound is okay situationaly (especially with the low CON), and Shards of the Past is about the same as other skill boosts, but their magic doesn't come with a DC boost! And then it is done. That is less than any other race, and with nothing particularly strong, unique, or mechanically interesting to boot.
I'd still probably use one at some point, just because of the fluff. I just hope Dragon Empire Primer gives them a few nice feat options or traits to make them mechanically more interesting and useful.
Yeah I'm honestly hoping for some errata or some heavy handed buffs via feats/alternate traits.
REALLY cool race, probably the worst in the game mechanically.
Anyway about the nagaji, anyone else stoked they made a race that could seriously look a dwarf in the eye and say "no but really, we're just as bad ass as you."
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
For me a race doesn't "suck" just because it has -2 Con. It has cool fluff and racial abilities that fit the fluff, that's all what I need.
Gorbacz wrote: For me a race doesn't "suck" just because it has -2 Con. It has cool fluff and racial abilities that fit the fluff, that's all what I need. But... it doesn't have racial abilities that fit the fluff, it doesn't really have anything tbh.
Edit: As an aside... you're in a thread that is explicitly about crunch and you're on the "inside the actor's studio" soapbox. I love roleplay, also care about rollplay since my DM doesn't think twice about TPK, and tbh my group enjoys knowing death is a possibility.
Gorbacz, I'm disappointed. Usually you have a reasonable explanation for the comments against what I say, but this time you're just picking a fight over the fact that having a -2 Con as a racial is a big deal for some people. I'm not seeing it as horrible myself (though I can see why others say it is), but I don't go yelling that Blastoguy is "badwrong" because he thinks it IS a bad thing.
Blastoguy wrote: Cheapy wrote: Methinks you are not giving a free natural attack the respect it should be given. Kitsune's natural attack is 1d4, Tengu's is 1d3. Nothing special. Please explain to me why I should respect it. As you mention above, the Tengu makes a decent rogue/ninja, both of which have sneak attack (which will be made on a flat-footed and / or flanked foe, helping to compensate slightly for the icky -5 secondary attack penalty). The dinky little extra 1d3 damage is, by itself, crap on a stick. It's the +Xd6 sneak attack damage that will be accompanying this *free* extra attack that will rock the house.
The free proficiency with elven curve blade, or whatever, is just gravy.
I'm with you on the Samsarans, on the other hand. They do feel a bit 'all over the place,' and Int & Wis aren't something that a ton of characters are going to need (other than, as you say, Mystic Theurges). They seem like they'd be very fun to RP, with all the past-life memory / knowledge stuff.
I removed some angry posts.
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