As title says. Logic dictates that you full-attack action can only be taken when you can actually hit someone. But can one actually use shield of swings with for example full-defence without any target in melee range?
Asking because it's a pretty cool image, using an Aldori dueling sword onehandedly, then shifting stance, grasping it with both hands, and seding out a flurry of swipes to defend against oncoming ranged attacks.
"When you take a full-attack action while wielding a two-handed weapon..."
There is no indication that you can use Shield of Swings with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands. It is only good with actual two-handed weapons.
Further, you can't take a full attack action and not attack, but you can declare squares you threaten as targets (as you would if you were trying to attack an invisible foe you suspected was next to you), so the concept works, even if your specific example doesn't.
The Aldori sword has specific texting that it can be used as a two handed sword, much like bastard sword, or the katana.
I suppose most gm's would allow:
"I want to go into a defensive stance(full def), putting up a barrier of strikes(shield of strikes), attacking no one."
Though attacking an empty square could work as well. The effect of both would be same, but the 2nd one would be almost using a loophole, while the first one would be Gm's Rule 0?
What I just noticed, is the Full-attack text. Is it me, or does the wording make it so you can't use it before you gain 6/1 or twf/flurry/haste, making Shield of Swings useless before gaining a +6/+1 or Haste?
The Aldori sword has specific texting that it can be used as a two handed sword, much like bastard sword, or the katana.
Not on the srd:
Sword, Aldori Dueling: "You can also wield an Aldori dueling sword in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."
It's just a longsword that you can finesse if you're (exotically) proficient.
I suppose most gm's would allow:
"I want to go into a defensive stance(full def), putting up a barrier of strikes(shield of strikes), attacking no one."
Nope.
Shield of Swings (Combat): "Benefit: When you take a full-attack action while wielding a two-handed weapon, you can choose to reduce the damage by 1/2 to gain a +4 shield bonus to AC and CMD until the beginning of your next turn. The reduction in damage applies until the beginning of your next turn."
Total Defense: "You can defend yourself as a standard action."
Shield of Swings is a full attack, total defense is a standard action.
What you could use is Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action: "You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full-attack action. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for until the start your next turn."
What I just noticed, is the Full-attack text. Is it me, or does the wording make it so you can't use it before you gain 6/1 or twf/flurry/haste, making Shield of Swings useless before gaining a +6/+1 or Haste?
I don't see that. It says if you want to get multiple attacks, you must use the full-attack. It doesn't say that you can't full-attack if you don't have extra attacks.
Don't know what the general consensus is, but seeing as only a few swords get a specific "in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength..." wording where the martial weapons or most exotic don't in addition to gaining the same strength bonus as a two-hander, in my circles we go by them counting as either 1h or 2h depending on the grip.
Right, I mixed it up, meant Fighting Defensively as Full-round.
It says you can yes, but other than full-defence, it also seems to be the only purpose of full-attack. Because attacking just once per round is the Standard Actions work, no?
Don't know what the general consensus is, but seeing as only a few swords get a specific "in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength..." wording where the martial weapons or most exotic don't in addition to gaining the same strength bonus as a two-hander, in my circles we go by them counting as either 1h or 2h depending on the grip.
Your group can freely change the rule, but there is an actual rule at work here. A weapon's grip does not affect its category. A longsword wielded in two hands is still a one-handed weapon, it just gets the same bonuses as a two-hander in most cases. Look at the Power Attack feat, for example--it specifically calls out the one handed weapon used in two hands thing.
It says you can yes, but other than full-defence, it also seems to be the only purpose of full-attack. Because attacking just once per round is the Standard Actions work, no?
The purpose of a full attack is to make more than one attack, unless a feat, like, say, Shield of Strikes, adds another bonus. You don't just need it at +6/+1, though, because with Two Weapon Fighting to Rapid Shot, you can make multiple attacks at BAB +1.
seeing as only a few swords get a specific "in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength..." wording where the martial weapons or most exotic don't in addition to gaining the same strength bonus as a two-hander, in my circles we go by them counting as either 1h or 2h depending on the grip.
All one-handed weapons can be wielded in two hands to gain 1.5xStr. (and better Power Attack)
I assume they mentioned it because it's odd to have 1.5xStr on a one-handed finesse weapon. (Are there any others, besides the whip?)
It says you can yes, but other than full-defence, it also seems to be the only purpose of full-attack. Because attacking just once per round is the Standard Actions work, no?
If by full-defence you mean total defense, that's a standard action. If you mean fighting defensively, that can be done as a standard action, or as a full-round action.
A normal person with just one attack and not doing anything strange would probably only use a standard action, not a full attack. But nothing is prohibiting him from making a full attack, and in the case of Shield of Swings, it can be beneficial to do so.
[QUOTE="Tyki11"Your group can freely change the rule, but there is an actual rule at work here. A weapon's grip does not affect its category. A longsword wielded in two hands is still a one-handed weapon, it just gets the same bonuses as a two-hander in most cases. Look at the Power Attack feat, for example--it specifically calls out the one handed weapon used in two hands thing.
Thanks for clearing the other questions out. But this one I'm still iffy about. As you said, it calls out one handed in two hands, but it also gives them the exact same bonuses. The weapon size/type say:
"This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat."
That could be read as changing your grip so the weapon handles like a two handed, makes it two handed for that turn, just as you can switch your off-hand.
Two weapons using somewhat alike wording have small differences.
Rapier specifically says it cannot be wielded in two hands.
Sawtooth sabre specifies: "the sabre remains classified as a one-handed melee weapon for all other purposes." making it specifically one handed even if used in two handed, even if it counts as a longsword, such as Aldori.
Edit:
There's rapier, spiked chain that I can think of now.
The weapon size/type say:
"This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat."
That could be read as changing your grip so the weapon handles like a two handed, makes it two handed for that turn, just as you can switch your off-hand.
Keep reading:
"a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder."So Shield of Swings only works with a two-handed weapon. Which, by definition, is an object of the same size category as the wielder. An Aldori Dueling Sword is a one-handed weapon, this means it's an object one size category smaller than the wielder.
Assuming you're a Medium creature:
A Two-handed weapon is a medium object.
A one-handed weapon is a small object.
A greatsword is a medium object.
An aldori dueling sword is a small object.
Putting two hands on a small object doesn't make it become a medium object. Just like taking one hand off a medium object doesn't make it a small object.
That could be read as changing your grip so the weapon handles like a two handed, makes it two handed for that turn, just as you can switch your off-hand.
Extrapolating a hypothetical meaning from a single sentence in a rule is not RAW. By RAW, there are categories of weapons: light, one-handed and two-handed.
Bastard sword, Aldori dueling sword and similar weapons are all listed on a table as one-handed melee weapons. Their descriptive text says you may wield them two-handed as a martial weapon, but does not say they are a two-handed melee weapon. Considering you can wield any one-handed melee weapon in two hands unless the weapon's description explicitly says otherwise, the reason for bastard sword-like weapons to have this text is solely to show the two-handed grip of this one-handed weapon is easier to learn (i.e., martial proficiency).
If the Shield of Swings feat had been intended to work with one-handed weapons used in two hands, it would have explicitly spelled it out. Compare its benefit with the benefit listed for Furious Focus, another Power Attack chain feat from the same supplement:
Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands, and using the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack's penalty on melee attack rolls on the first attack you make each turn. You still suffer the penalty on any additional attacks, including attacks of opportunity.
Now, I think it's an entirely reasonable house rule to have Shield of Swings work when taking a full-attack action with an Aldori dueling sword. I just would check first to make sure my GM agrees, and probably wouldn't try to put it into a build for a PFS character.