What I Have Learned Through Playing A Stormborn Sorcerer Wordcaster

[NathanE]

Things I have learned about the Words of Power system described in the Ultimate Magic playbook. (More accurately: errors, discrepancies, and problems I have encountered)

The examples on page 165 describe two wordspells.

1) The burst fire blast is a nice example, though for a true copy of the mighty fireball spell, you need to add the lengthy meta word to it. Then you will have a long range, 20'R burst fireball doing max 10d10 damage. A sixth level sorcerer could cast this wordspell only once. Thereafter, it would be limited to medium range.

2) Selected ice blast life leech will not actually give negative levels. The entire word would be limited to an instantaneous duration, which means the negative levels will come and go in the blink of an eye. Utterly useless addition to an otherwise fine cold word.

The selected target word's boost effect is completely understandable. Basically, it adds "mass-" to the wordspell's effects. Bull Strength, level 2 word. Mass Bull Strength, level 5 word. OK, cool.

The healing words exchange healing amount for range. They do d6 base but add close range instead of touch range. OK, cool. That seems fair. Though they stop at level 4 effect, which seems out of place. No high level healing or harming effects.

Purify is basically Remove Curse, Remove Disease, and Neutralize Poison all rolled into one spell with the side effect of not being a guaranteed cure, even for a disease or poison. Though it does remove a permanent negative level without the 1 week rest and 1000gp of diamond dust required. Oh, and a standard action casting time. Wow. Why do clerics now ever used the "refined and evolved" Restoration spell if it sucks so bad compared to the Purify word of power? Goodbye scrolls of Restoration - hello scrolls of Purify. Until you need to repair ability drain. Then a wordcaster is absolutely screwed.

I have already tried to start a thread on the valueless Sense Hidden word. A see invisible up to 10' (use a meta word to see up to 20'. But keep in mind that at this point you have a total of 2 meta words per day.) to a spellcaster is utterly useless, especially since you have to end the spell (its duration is concentration, after all) in order to cast another wordspell, but now you can't see your target again so all your other selected target effect words or once again useless.

There are no good dispelling words. I suppose this could be as designed. Suppress requires knowing the specific spell effect in the first place, and only on a willing target, and only for a temporary time. Yes, I know it can be boosted, but remember that at that effect level, the caster will have all of 2 meta words available.

The description of ball lightning runs counter to the description of the selected target word. Try it yourself and see if you can reconcile the opposing descriptions of a boosted selected and the description of multi-targeting ball lightning. Also, keep in mind that a boosted selected ball lightning is a level 8 word, which is far more limiting than that other level 8 electric word, Thunder Strike. It doesn't make sense.

Force Bolt is not a magic missile. First, it's a level 2 effect, and second, it requires a touch attack to hit, and third, it can do more damage at low levels but hits its limit at level 5 (doing 5d4 (5-20), while magic missile is doing 3d4+3 (6-15)). Mass force bolt is a 5th level spell, and is pretty lame compared to Force Blast, which has no limit to target word.

Servitor words trade a shorter casting time (1 standard action!) for the ability to summon multiples or a lower level monster. Summon Monster 3, a 3rd level spell, can summon d4+1 1st level monsters, but the equivalent effect word is a boosted servitor 1, which is a 4th level wordspell.

I have seen other mentions of the Decelerate or Accelerate power words. Yes. They are pretty costly in any mass kind of form. The actual Haste spell is level 3, and the closest that Accelerate can do to mimic the effects is as a level 5 twice-boosted wordspell, and that will only allow an extra attack instead of an extra move, no bonus to AC, no bonus to initiative, no bonus to reflex saves. All for two meta words used in one wordspell.

Teleportation words. Ugh. Dimensional Hop yourself as a 3rd level spell. Hop yourself and others as a 6th level spell, and only within close range (55' at 12th level caster) and only within line of sight. Yay. Dimensional Jump yourself as a 5th level spell, but only to a place you have been to before, which is not too bad. Jump yourself and others as an 8th level spell!

Oh, and only clerics can Dimensional Shift others along with themselves. Sorcerers/Wizards can only shift themselves, not others; to do so would require a level 10 spell.

How is Ice Wall subject to spell resistance? OK it's an evocation, it evokes, and usually evoking evokes spell resistance. But this is a physical wall of ice. So SR will allow someone to just walk through it, even though the ice has hit points? Stone Wall is a creation spell, but it also is subject to spell resistance. So how does that work?

All in all, I do enjoy my wordcasting stormborn sorcerer. I just wish it didn't feel like a lot of the words and their target resitriction weren't tested at all. I get the feeling that the entire wordcasting system changed halfway through playtesting and a lot of spell descriptions didn't get updated along the way.

I tried looking for an errata for Ultimate Magic, but I couldn't find one. I am hoping Words can be cleaned up because they are enjoyable, and I like the faux latin I made up for the Thassilonian words I use with my character.

Please fix them! Otherwise I will have to fix them with my GM. So any input is appreciated.

[Maddigan]

I picked up Purify for my Inquisitor with the feat that allows you to get a Word of Power. Much better than restoration for removal of negative levels during battle.

[Sir Ophiuchus]

NathanE wrote:

2) Selected ice blast life leech will not actually give negative levels. The entire word would be limited to an instantaneous duration, which means the negative levels will come and go in the blink of an eye. Utterly useless addition to an otherwise fine cold word.

That's not how the instantaneous duration works. The spell hits you with the temporary negative levels. They're now on your character and you have to make Fort saves each day to remove them as normal, DC equal to that of the wordspell.

Edit: That's for a boosted life leech. An unboosted one has the temporary negative levels last 1 hour per caster level. Still fine.

Edit2: Ah, I see what you're saying! The rule that the lowest duration among multiple effects dictates that the temporary negative levels are instantaneous. Hmm, that's definitely a mistake. It would work fine with a boosted life leech though. I think "duration" is miswritten for life leech, actually. It should be "instantaneous" and have it noted in the description that the temporary negative levels last for 1 hour per caster level. As with Enervation: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enervation. Errata, perhaps?

[hogarth]

My experience (I'm playing a Words of Power oracle) is basically the same as yours: some spells are much crappier than their non-Word equivalents (or there is no wordspell equivalent at all), a few are nicer, and some don't work like they're supposed to.

The cleric/oracle spell list has the further disadvantage of being very limited in level 6+ spell choices:

5 level 6 spells

2 (!) level 7 spells

6 level 8 spells

3 level 9 spells

I suspect the word lists won't get expanded in the future, either.

[Caedwyr]

The whole instantaneous timing issue with wordspells wasn't clearly thought out. Try to recreate wall of stone using wordspells (including the original non-wordspell's instantaneous duration). Things get very inconsistent as to how the instantaneous duration appears intended to work and this can result in all sorts of unbalanced shenanigans if your GM tries to be consistent with how they treat the instantaneous duration.

It's an interesting system, but needs some fixing up. If you have time, please let us know what you and your GM cook up.

[NathanE]

The differences between instantaneous and permanent durations for conjurations was covered in another post that I came across while trying to search for Word issues before I made my original post. Instantaneous conjurations create something, then the spell effect goes away while the thing it created stays and reacts normally in the world. So a wall of stone (or iron) will come into existence and stay. It cannot be dispelled because the creation magics are no longer there. A duration of permanent means it can be dispelled or disjuncted or otherwise cancelled through magical means. Blindness is a 2nd level spell with a permanent duration, so the blindness is continually caused by a magical effect occluding normal vision, not a destruction of the eyeballs themselves. Hence, it can be dispelled or negated, or even temporarily suspended, such as in an antimagic field.

Looking through the CRB, the evocation walls are also subject to spell resistance, but wall of ice specifically states it cannot be formed in a space already occupied by an object or creature. I suppose the damaging frigid air in the space left by a broken piece of the wall can be resisted, but will SR allow resistance to the slippery ice plane that can be formed?

@Sir Ophiuchus I believe Life Leech works as written. The purpose of Words is to be "unrefined" raw magic, as opposed to the more refined spells. Enervation is a refined spell, very specifically written with a duration of instantaneous to prevent dispel magic from negating it along with the restriction that it is a single target that still has to be hit with a ray. Life Leech can be boosted to hit multiple targets as a 7th level Word. It can also be boosted to give permanent negative levels, but then those, too, can be easily removed with the 4th level word Purify. Though, as an aside, it can be more powerful than Energy Drain, in that it does not allow a saving throw to throw off the negative levels. If the target fails it's initial save at casting, those levels are automagically permanent, unlike Energy Drain.

@hogarth I agree with the lack of 7th level divine effect words. Time to start making up combos to use up those slots! Look at Servitor 6 + Perfect Form, perhaps... I agree with your doubts that the word list will be expanded. It's a great idea that needs more testing, I think. I feel that it is as raw and unrefined as the Words themselves are supposed to be!

@Caedwyr I don't have a problem with a duration of instantaneous for a conjuration(creation) spell. The Wall Words seem to be picked from the four major elements (earth, air, fire, water) with the classic blade (from the elemental plane of blades?? :) thrown in for the divines. Those Words bring forth a bit of that elemental plane, then the magic ends and those materials return from whence they came. I get that for the evocations, though the conjurations are a bit of a knot.

My group and I haven't played over these holidays but we are resuming tomorrow. I'll ask the group for input and see what we come up with.

[NathanE]

Well I have asked my group to try and resolve these, with no one bothering to respond. Even in person, everyone deferred it to email and then nothing after that. It seems they do not want to be bothered to work on a system that seems inherently troublesome and that no-one will ever use again.

In the meantime I will avoid the problematic words and pretend they don't exist. If I could find some kind of errata, or if the messageboard search engine worked (stop equating "words" with "word"! They are not the same search criterion!) then I would care more. But now ... I just don't care what happens with the Words. Too much effort to try and make them work.

(The feel of the lack of polish and workability in this section of UM is what turned me off UC. Never even bothered to look at it.)

Nathan

[Kerobelis]

NathanE wrote:

Well I have asked my group to try and resolve these, with no one bothering to respond. Even in person, everyone deferred it to email and then nothing after that. It seems they do not want to be bothered to work on a system that seems inherently troublesome and that no-one will ever use again.

In the meantime I will avoid the problematic words and pretend they don't exist. If I could find some kind of errata, or if the messageboard search engine worked (stop equating "words" with "word"! They are not the same search criterion!) then I would care more. But now ... I just don't care what happens with the Words. Too much effort to try and make them work.

(The feel of the lack of polish and workability in this section of UM is what turned me off UC. Never even bothered to look at it.)

Nathan

There is now errata for UM. No idea if it will answer your questions....

[Mojorat]

i think the problem is that the word spells are designed to follow verry special rules and everything they do has to be shoehorned into that rules set. where as a lot of normal spells create their own special rules.

I am a player in the same group as NathanE. we're lvl 15 as of this post. I can really only give an opinion based on observation of his particular character.

word casting seems to do blasting very well, wether in damage or damage supported by an effect like stagger or entangle. as we hit higher levels the ability to summon monsters with buffs on them seems useful.

the few stat buff spells he's seed seem more interesting than the normal spells,

i avoided the topic of the house rules and thought I had expressed at the time. I find they often cause problems and perceived fixes often cause unseen issues.

I think to get a proper opinion you'd need to do a game where everyone with word casting. with only one person doing it its hard to offter an informed opinion.