Two-weapon fighting with Longbows?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

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So, after spending too much time searching for strange character ideas, I finally got in my head the concept of an alchemist that dual wields longbows.

Specifically, he uses the vestigial arm discovery twice to net himself two more arms to use as part of the two-weapon fighting chain.

As a sidenote, he's also a vivisectionist with the tumor familiar and the feat that grants his tumor a 1 point evolution for +8 racial to UMD. The tumor uses a wand of grease while he fires two bows at the same time. Eventually he gets Imp. Invis.

So the question is whether or not you CAN two-weapon fight with longbows, or any type of bow or crossbow. Usually, needing two hands prevents it from even being an option. However, ranged weapons don't have a default sizing for two-weapon fighting. So, weirdness.


All I know is that when you fire a light crossbow you can fire it one handed with penalties but need two hands to reload it, and when you put two of them on hero lab it gives you the penalties of two weapon fighting hope that helps a little


Well let's look at vestigial arm:

d20pfsrd.com wrote:
The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb).

So the extra arm can be used for TWF. The real question is, can you TWF with bows. My answer as a GM would simply be no, that's why you have the rapid shot line. I still think this is a hilarious concept though, and I think you should try to con your GM into allowing it. >:)


I would say it's completely plausible, the question is if it's rapid shot or two-weapon fighting.

I would say two-weapon fighting because you're doing it with two-weapons (rapid shot is about using the same weapon to fire more often.)

The next question is can you use rapid shot with two-weapon fighting to fire even more shots from each bow. The anti-game breaker in me says no, but the GM in me says

a. that's an awesome concept,
b. it's got a high feat cost, and
c. technically speaking long bows are not light weapons, so with the -2 for rapid shot plus the -4 for TWF you'd end up with a total of -6 to attacks in exchange for, in essence, attacking with 4 weapons (so break out enchantments and even more feats to overcome that detriment.)

That not only sounds balanced to me, but plausible and fun. The rules seem to allow it, it's not game=breaking, and I'd love to GM a character like that. I say go for it.


I've got a bit of experience as an archer, both with LARP combat archery and target archery. So I'm coming at this as a guy who knows his way around a bow.

I would say this would be plausible but somewhat ineffective.

A) you sight down the arrow to aim
B) ideal archery stance has the bow at perpendicular to the ground

you would only be able to sight down one bow and would be firing somewhat blind with the other. Also you would need to slant both bows enough that they wouldn't clash perhaps 10-20 degrees off perpendicular

I would say you should take -2 with the primary and -4 or more with the secondary at very least.

This sounds to me like you would want a dedicated feat instead of/ or in addition to two weapon fighting.

There's a 3.5 precedent for this, and a good image to visualize
Check out arrow demon p34 in Monster Manual 3
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/iw_arrow_demon.jpg


Ask your GM. Some will allow it some will not. The rules can't help you here are you are now outside of both RAW and RAI. Only your GM can answer this for you.

If it was me, I would say no. You can not TWF with a bow.

Grand Lodge

Would the penalties be different for shortbows?


Bows i would say no but crossbows or two handed guns sure.

Grand Lodge

Dual wielding Dorn-Dergars! Reach and adjacent with only one weapon! No armor spikes. I love alchemists!


There's absolutely nothing in the rules that would prevent you from doing this.

You can TWF with ranged weapons, you can even TWF and still get rapid shot, though the penalties would stack.

You can TWF with Two-Handed weapons provided you have enough hands.

Longbows aren't light weapons, so you would definitely get the penalties from that as well.

Your DM could say NO, I suppose. He could also not allow TWF at all if he wanted, in his home games, but there's nothing in the TFW description that puts limits on what weapons you can and can't fight with.

Grand Lodge

Yeah, big penalties, but absolutely RAW doable.

Grand Lodge

Maugan22 wrote:
This sounds to me like you would want a dedicated feat instead of/ or in addition to two weapon fighting.

You'd need Multiweapon Fighting, which the alchemist can't take until he has at least three arms. Other than that, it seems achievable.

Grand Lodge

Halfling sling staffs sound better. Mutagen to pump strenght and deal more damage.


This reminds me of an 8-bit theatre panel...
Here it is


I don't think a vestigial arm would have the strength required to notch a bow.

Grand Lodge

The extra arms can do anything a normal arm can do. It's in the description.

Scarab Sages

Heh, I love that comic :D

I went with the vestigial arm because it specifically says it has the strength and dexterity to wield a weapon.

So, with the multi-weapon fighting feat, would you still be able to pick up improved and greater twf?

And would the different ranged weapons fall into different size categories for twf, or would they all be the equivalent of a two-handed weapon?

Grand Lodge

You cannot use this discovery to gain multiweapon fighting. Sounds strange, but developers have stated as such. You can wield two greatswords, but not four daggers. It is to balance the discovery. You can do other things like hold a shield and two weapon fight, but not anything that would gain you anymore attacks than two weapon fighting would.


More WTF than TWF.

But, as implausible as it looks, I'd say that by RAW you can do it.

Still, I can't see while you would use grease: being prone give you a boost (+4) to AC against ranged attacks, as opposed to the penalty it gives against melee

Scarab Sages

Grease is for the poor mans sneak attack, via vivisectionist


Four shields?

Grand Lodge

Sissyl wrote:
Four shields?

Pointless. You can two hand two heavy shields, adding strength and a half to damage. They are one handed weapons.

Scarab Sages

I'm thinking now that perhaps dual wielding slings are a better way to go, with snap shot and the halfling racial to make reloading a free action.

Two slings for the price of one.

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