Items & spells that stack: Archery


Advice


Requirements in parenthesis, type In brackets. List will be edited as input.

Items
Bow enchantments [Enchantment]
Arrow enchantments (largest of plusses, no dual effects like 2 x Holy) [Enchantment]
Bracers of archery (proficiency for full effect) [Competence]
Duelling Gloves (Weapon Training class feature) [Weapon Training]
Ioun stole, Pale Green [Competence]

Spells & Effects, available in party
Magic Weapon & Greater (see arrow stacking) [Enchantment]
Reduce Person [size]
Flame Arrow [Fire]
Gravity Bow [?]
Good Hope [Morale]
Heroism, & Greater [Morale]
inspire Courage [Competence]

Spells, self only
True Strike [Insight]


Tandriniel wrote:

Requirements in parenthesis, type In brackets. List will be edited as input.

Items
Bow enchantments [Enchantment]
Arrow enchantments (largest of plusses, no dual effects like 2 x Holy) [Enchantment]
Bracers of archery (proficiency for full effect) [Competence]
Duelling Gloves (Weapon Training class feature) [Weapon Training]
Ioun stole, Pale Green [Competence]

Spells & Effects, available in party
Magic Weapon & Greater (see arrow stacking) [Enchantment]
Reduce Person [size]
Flame Arrow [Fire]
Gravity Bow [?]
Good Hope [Morale]
Heroism, & Greater [Morale]
inspire Courage [Competence]

Spells, self only
True Strike [Insight]

Dump those bracers of archery and buy a dex item, they're very expensive from a competence bonus you're getting from inspire courage, which ought to be up during all the rounds you need it anyway.


Lastoth wrote:
Tandriniel wrote:

Requirements in parenthesis, type In brackets. List will be edited as input.

Items
Bow enchantments [Enchantment]
Arrow enchantments (largest of plusses, no dual effects like 2 x Holy) [Enchantment]
Bracers of archery (proficiency for full effect) [Competence]
Duelling Gloves (Weapon Training class feature) [Weapon Training]
Ioun stole, Pale Green [Competence]

Spells & Effects, available in party
Magic Weapon & Greater (see arrow stacking) [Enchantment]
Reduce Person [size]
Flame Arrow [Fire]
Gravity Bow [?]
Good Hope [Morale]
Heroism, & Greater [Morale]
inspire Courage [Competence]

Spells, self only
True Strike [Insight]

Dump those bracers of archery and buy a dex item, they're very expensive from a competence bonus you're getting from inspire courage, which ought to be up during all the rounds you need it anyway.

Agreed, but this is meant to be an extensive list, to find stuff' that stacks (or doesn't)


Doh, can't edit posts...


Enlarge Person [Size] (Not for damage dice, since the ammunition reverts to it's original size upon leaving your hand, but Enlarge person does include a size bonus to strength, which can be applied via an appropriate strength bonus on a composite bow, and therefore should last)

Bull's Strength [Enhancement] (As above, this requires owning a composite bow which can take advantage of the increased strength)

Arrows of _______ Slaying [Untyped] (The slaying quality does not count as a plus, meaning you could potentially have +X arrows of slaying. However, you're smarter investing the +X and qualities into your bow, which will then apply those to your arrows of slaying. Obviously greater arrows of slaying are applicable as well.)

Bestow Grace of the Champion [Smite] (Allows the person it is cast on to use Smite Evil like a paladin. I'm not sure if the bonuses from Smite Evil are untyped, or typed as their own)

Bless Weapon [Untyped] (Helps to overcome DR, and automatically confirms all critical threats against evil targets. Must be cast on your ammunition.)

Bloodsworn Retribution [Morale]

Bow Spirit [Untyped] (Personal spell that allows you to make an extra ranged attack as a swift action, at your BAB + Dex + Feats + Ammunition)

Daybreak Arrow [Untyped] (Radiant energy infused into your ammunition. Half of all damage ignores DR, causes light sensitive penalties, and deals extra damage to undead or creatures hurt by sunlight)

Divine Arrow [Untyped] (Arrow deals extra damage to undead equal to lay on hands ability)

Yeah, I'm sure there's more, but that's all I have time for today.


DreamAtelier wrote:

Enlarge Person [Size] (Not for damage dice, since the ammunition reverts to it's original size upon leaving your hand, but Enlarge person does include a size bonus to strength, which can be applied via an appropriate strength bonus on a composite bow, and therefore should last)

Easily overcome by carrying an efficient quiver, and placing Large arrows as well as medium arrows into the quiver. Since the arrows are inside an extra dimensional pocket, they are not affected by the spell (they're not 'on' your person when the spell is cast, just the quiver itself is). When you reach back you mentally 'wish' for the large arrows when enlarged. This means the arrows will stay large after being fired (they're not enlarged).


My next item will be bracers of monkey grip, magic item compendium, 3.5. That's not the real name of them, but that's what they do. They allow you to wield a weapon that is 1 size category larger without the penalty for about 6k. Gravety bow is great, but it's a personal spell. The strength bonuses would be difficult to account for unless you had multiple bows, or the homebrew feat that for +1 allows your bow to use whatever strength bonus you have. Weapon crystal for +1d6 energy damage also in the MIC. I use a luck bonus from craft magical tatoo. +1 luck and lasts 24 hours for 2nd level arcane slot. That I found in the spell compendium (also 3.5).(Think it's in magic of farun as well). Another use of craft magical tatoo will grant you a +2 competence for 24 hours. I think I'll be made permanently 1 size category smaller for the bonus to attack. Archers are fun! What type are you playing anyhow?


mdt wrote:
DreamAtelier wrote:

Enlarge Person [Size] (Not for damage dice, since the ammunition reverts to it's original size upon leaving your hand, but Enlarge person does include a size bonus to strength, which can be applied via an appropriate strength bonus on a composite bow, and therefore should last)

Easily overcome by carrying an efficient quiver, and placing Large arrows as well as medium arrows into the quiver. Since the arrows are inside an extra dimensional pocket, they are not affected by the spell (they're not 'on' your person when the spell is cast, just the quiver itself is). When you reach back you mentally 'wish' for the large arrows when enlarged. This means the arrows will stay large after being fired (they're not enlarged).

This is a solution I have never encountered before, but which should, by all rules I am a familiar with work. Therefore I thank you, mdt, for the suggestion which I will be appropriating for my magus' ranged capabilities in the near future.

I am fairly certain my DM will be irritated when I start combining that with gravity bow for weapon damage that is even one size category larger, but not as irritated as he was when I mounted siege weapons on our party's caravan wagons.


I'm not sure about the large arrow stored in efficient quiver: my point is, if you extract something from the quiver, shouldn't it be subject to the enlarge person effect thus becoming huge? Let's say that you are medium, have a medium bow inside the quiver and get enlarger: you then extract the bow, my understanding is that it becomes large too. For the same reason I believe that a large arrow would become huge and then revert to large after being fired (but you still have to shoot it while huge which is impossible as far as I know).


Crysknife wrote:
I'm not sure about the large arrow stored in efficient quiver: my point is, if you extract something from the quiver, shouldn't it be subject to the enlarge person effect thus becoming huge? Let's say that you are medium, have a medium bow inside the quiver and get enlarger: you then extract the bow, my understanding is that it becomes large too. For the same reason I believe that a large arrow would become huge and then revert to large after being fired (but you still have to shoot it while huge which is impossible as far as I know).

No, if that were true, you could pick up any item and it would enlarge when you picked it up, which is not how it works. Any item that is on you when the spell is cast get's enlarged, and then stays enlarged for the duration of the spell. As soon as it leaves your touch, it returns to normal. If you pick it up again, it doesn't grow again. The spell is no longer enlarging things. That part has already happened. The only thing the duration measures is how long you (and things in continuous contact with you) remain enlarged.

Because an efficient quiver is an extradimensional space, nothing in it is in contact with you (or even with the quiver, which is in contact with you). The same applies to a bag of holding or a handy haversack.

And honestly, you WANT them to be immune. If it wasn't, you'd rip your bags of holding and handy haversacks apart every time someone cast enlarge on you if you had them mostly full. All of them are governed by both weight and volume limitations. As soon as you have more than the haversack can hold in it's pocket, it get's busted. Imagine a steering wheel airbag inflating inside a woman's purse (medium sized purse) and you get the idea.


Well, the best archer spell ever

Spells:
Named bulled/greater [Untyped](a single ammunition hits as a ranged touch attack and automatically threaten a critical hit, + caster level bonus to damage not multiplied on a critical hit)
Aspect of the falcon [Competence] (bows and crossbows crits 19-20/x3 and +1 competence bonus to hit)

Effects:
Aura of justice [Smite] (smite evil for every non-evil allies)

Items:
Bane [Enhancement, Untyped] (Bane bow, +2 enhancement and +2d6 untyped vs certain enemies)
Holy [Sacred] (+2d6 sacred vs evil enemies)

Feats:
Clustered shots (not a bonus but let you apply DR only once instead than on every arrow)
Penetrating strike (not a bonus but let you consider DR as lower)
Hammer the gap [Untyped] (every strike deal bonus damage equal to the number of shot that it before it in the same round)

Can't remember anything else but I'm sure there is more

Can't think of anything else

EDIT: to answer mdt

I see your point, thanks for the clarification.


I'd actually argue that clustered shots and penetrating strike are mediocre feats for a dedicated archer.

Dedicated archers should be in possession of an efficient quiver, at least, which makes it rather easy to ensure you're using ammunition of a material type which will overcome DR. In most games I've played they had two, because of the fact that there's nothing worse than getting halfway through the dungeon and realizing that you've run out of ammunition.

Also, your dedicated archer should have sufficient attacks per round that even if he lacks the knowledge skills to figure out what can penetrate a creature's DR, he can figure out by trial and error over the first round of combat. Think something has DR? your first two shots are silver and cold iron. Which one sinks in? Use that type until it dies.

I suppose if you're in a game where your DM is a fan of oddball DRs, then maybe. But even then there are usually ways around it that don't require you spending a feat (such as Greater Magic Weapon on a bow to gain Bane, or Holy, or Axiomatic or what have you).


DreamAtelier wrote:

I'd actually argue that clustered shots and penetrating strike are mediocre feats for a dedicated archer.

I was merely listing them.

That said, my best bet against an archer (after wind wall) would be DR/- and you can't go around it in any other way. Even a barbarian (expecially invulnerable rager with rage powers to increase DR) can be a bit of a pain for an archer.
DR/alignment is bad until you mid-high level, and DR/epic or DR/slashing are always bad. Can you live without those feat? well, probably, it depends on how much your DM wants to screw you.

Once I'm done with the basic archery feats one of those two would be high on my list.

DreamAtelier wrote:


I suppose if you're in a game where your DM is a fan of oddball DRs, then maybe. But even then there are usually ways around it that don't require you spending a feat (such as Greater Magic Weapon on a bow to gain Bane, or Holy, or Axiomatic or what have you).

I'm not sure what do you mean here, but greater magic weapon can't give your weapon special properties, just enhancement bonuses: even those do not allow you to bypass DR as the corresponding enhancement bonus of a weapon would (it's explicit in the spell description). But maybe I'm reading what you said in the wrong way.


Crysknife wrote:


I'm not sure what do you mean here, but greater magic weapon can't give your weapon special properties, just enhancement bonuses: even those do not allow you to bypass DR as the corresponding enhancement bonus of a weapon would (it's explicit in the spell description). But maybe I'm reading what you said in the wrong way.

I think what he's getting at is that magic weapons, as their enhancement bonus goes higher, overcome some forms of DR.

A +3 weapon overcomes Cold Iron/Silver DR
A +4 weapon overcomes Adamantine DR
A +5 weapon overcomes all Alignment DRs

Thus if you cast a greater magic weapon on a weapon and make it temporarily +5, then it bypasses Cold Iron/Silver/Adamantine/Lawful/Good/Evil/Chaotic DR.

EDIT: Ah, you're correct, hadn't noticed that before. Good to remember on the Greater Magic Weapon.

EDIT 2 : On the other hand, if you have ready access to GMW, you can have your weapons be +1 Shocking/Frosting/Flaming/Acidic, then cast GMW on it to up the enhancement and still be doing +4d6 of elemental damage on top of the weapon damage. And the elemental damage, being magical, will ignore the DR.


mdt wrote:


I think what he's getting at is that magic weapons, as their enhancement bonus goes higher, overcome some forms of DR.

A +3 weapon overcomes Cold Iron/Silver DR
A +4 weapon overcomes Adamantine DR
A +5 weapon overcomes all Alignment DRs

Thus if you cast a greater magic weapon on a weapon and make it temporarily +5, then it bypasses Cold Iron/Silver/Adamantine/Lawful/Good/Evil/Chaotic DR.

EDIT: Ah, you're correct, hadn't noticed that before. Good to remember on the Greater Magic Weapon.

EDIT 2 : On the other hand, if you have ready access to GMW, you can have your weapons be +1 Shocking/Frosting/Flaming/Acidic, then cast GMW on it to up the enhancement and still be doing +4d6 of elemental damage on top of the weapon damage. And the elemental damage, being magical, will ignore the DR.

Yes, of course, but you are still suffering from the DR for the rest of the damage (and by the level you can afford such a weapon resistance to one or two of these element should be quite common). With my ranger clustered shots has the level 11 slot reserved.

On the adamantine DR:
Spells:
Abundant ammunition [none](cast on a container and it replace the non magical ammunition taken the round before)

Adamantine ammunition costs a lot, so just buy the number you can use in a round. Empty the container as combat starts and keep using those that get created. Situational, yes, but since I discovered this tactic I don't fear golems anymore.

EDIT:
on the greater magical weapon topic: does it make your weapon harder and with more hit points? Can it still be sundered by a lesser weapon? (e.g. a +2 weapon can't sunder a +3 weapon. can it sunder a +1 weapon with greater magic weapon active making giving it a +3 enhancement bonus?)


Crysknife wrote:

EDIT:

on the greater magical weapon topic: does it make your weapon harder and with more hit points? Can it still be sundered by a lesser weapon? (e.g. a +2 weapon can't sunder a +3 weapon. can it sunder a +1 weapon with greater magic weapon active making giving it a +3 enhancement bonus?)

Since the spell specifically calls out where it is not like a standard enchantment (that it doesn't overcome DR), then it should be exactly like an enchanted weapon in all other regards. So theoretically, if you have a +1 weapon with GMW (+3) on it, and you're fighting someone with a +2 weapon, you can sunder them, but they can't sunder you. If the intention were that it didn't act like that, they'd have called it out as well, the same way the called out it didn't overcome DR as per normal.


I agree with you.

Another (useless) feat:

Focused shot [untyped] (as a std action add you INTMOD to damage)


Crysknife wrote:

I agree with you.

Another (useless) feat:

Focused shot [untyped] (as a std action add you INTMOD to damage)

Depends on your character. It's untyped, so it stacks with everything, and I could see a skill monkey ranged rogue loving it, or a multiclassed wizard or magus using it for bows, given their need for a high int.


Hmm... I also had apparently failed to notice that line on Greater Magic Weapon. Thanks for catching it and pointing it out, Crysknife


arcane strike [untyped but eats a swift action for the round] +1+casterlevel/5 damage

kirin strike [untyped but eats a swift action for one attack] 2x int mod in damage; Wording is funky and it may not even be a bonus but a second damage source of unspecified type.


Crysknife wrote:

Well, the best archer spell ever

Spells:
Named bulled/greater [Untyped](a single ammunition hits as a ranged touch attack and automatically threaten a critical hit, + caster level bonus to damage not multiplied on a critical hit)
Aspect of the falcon [Competence] (bows and crossbows crits 19-20/x3 and +1 competence bonus to hit)

That looks like a sweet spell crysknife, greater bulled. I've never come across it though. Where's a good book to look in for that or webpage. Aspect of falcon sounds kinda cool too.

I took clustered shots on recommendation and haven't regretted it.

I could use a insight or circumstance bonus to my ranged attacks, any suggestions?

Liberty's Edge

Along with Abundant Ammunition, which allows ammunition enhanced by spell to be replaced with additional ammunition enhanced by the same spell, look into weapon blanch:

Weapon Blanch, Silvered
Weapon Blanch, Adamantine
And, especially, Weapon Blanch, Ghost Salt

Enhancement: Seeking, which allows the archer to ignore all miss chances, not just from concealment.

Snap Shot
Improved Snap Shot
Greater Snap Shot

These three feats actually make the Archer archetype for Fighter worth looking at. Of course, that requires a fair Dex and Combat Reflexes to make it work, but being able to trip or disarm someone 15' away from you when they are charging you is always nice.

Don't forget blunt arrows, as well as special material arrows.

Some dips, with benefits:
Ranger (if you know what to make your Favored Enemy, +2 to hit and damage...)
Cleric (Desna, Travel [+10'] & Liberation): Additional movement speed, and the ability to ignore difficult terrain and magical movement inhibitors (black tentacles, I'm looking at you)

Other feats:
Deadly Aim
Rapid Shot
Manyshot
Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Greater Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Specialization
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Point-Blank Master (not any bonus to hit, but not provoking if you are based is golden)

Spells:
Bless (morale)
Prayer (?)
Guidance (?)


DreamAtelier wrote:
Hmm... I also had apparently failed to notice that line on Greater Magic Weapon. Thanks for catching it and pointing it out, Crysknife

You are welcome (and I'm sorry if that buff was one of your standard tactics)

Kahn Zordlon wrote:
Crysknife wrote:

Well, the best archer spell ever

Spells:
Named bulled/greater [Untyped](a single ammunition hits as a ranged touch attack and automatically threaten a critical hit, + caster level bonus to damage not multiplied on a critical hit)
Aspect of the falcon [Competence] (bows and crossbows crits 19-20/x3 and +1 competence bonus to hit)

That looks like a sweet spell crysknife, greater bulled. I've never come across it though. Where's a good book to look in for that or webpage. Aspect of falcon sounds kinda cool too.

I took clustered shots on recommendation and haven't regretted it.

I could use a insight or circumstance bonus to my ranged attacks, any suggestions?

you can find named bullet and greater named bullet on the ultimate combat or here

For insight:
class feature for ranger11: quarry [insight](+2 insight bonus on attack roll against a marked enemy, std action to select the quarry, until he is dead or surrender; automatically confirms critical threats)

guide11 archetype for rangers, substitutes quarry: inspired moment [untyped] (until the end of your next turn, +4 untyped bonus on attack rolls, AC, one extra move or swift action per round, automatically confirm critical threats)

For circumstance: I thought about being on higher ground but that does not apply for ranger attacks (which I find quite surprising). It also seems to be untyped even for melee.

The only one I can think of its a teamwork feat and 1)requires that you and an adjacent ally threaten an enemy (so you need point-blank master or something that let you threaten) and 1)only apply on attack of opportunity : paired opportunist [circumstance] (+4 circ. bonus on aoo against an enemy that you both threaten).

Another teamwork feat:
enfilading fire [untyped] (you recieve a +2 bonus on ranged attacks made against a foe flanked by 1 or more allies with this feat)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Items & spells that stack: Archery All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice