Summoned Monsters and Summoned Swarms


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

Thinking of making a conjuration specialty wizard, and I have a few questions about summoning.

First, correct me if I'm wrong: the time to cast a creature is 1 round, meaning you spend a full round action, and the creature pops into existence at the start of your next turn. If it's large, at least one square of it must be in your range. On that turn, the creature is allotted a move and standard action. You decide where it shows up right before it does, not when you start casting.

Second, about swarms: swarms basically get one move action, and after that, anything inside them takes unavoidable damage and has to roll to avoid getting distracted (fortitude save). Swarms take one AoO while moving to occupy a square (is this two if the other creature has a long reach?). If someone starts their turn outside of a swarm, and walks through it on their turn, are they impeded in any way? Does the swarm get any sort of AoO, or distraction, or at least act as difficult terrain?

Third: does Augment Summoning affect swarms in any way?

Fourth: does the Smite function on the celestial/abyssal templates do anything if the summoned creature has 11 or less charisma?

Fifth: are the attacks listed under the various summons (e.g., 2 slams +3 [+5] (1d6+2) [1d6+4]) standard attacks or full attacks? If standard, do they get any sort of bonus for full attacking? If full, what is the standard attack?

Sixth: the Summon Monster ability says that summoned monsters can't summon anything of their own, but the summoned creature: dretch (summon monster III; monster description is here - http://bit.ly/tyZiKt) has "summon (level 1, 1 dretch 35%)" as an ability. What's up with that? Also, I if the dretch has "stinking cloud (DC 13)", that means the saving DC for its spell is 13, right? How does that compare to if you cast the spell yourself?

Seventh: Summoning doesn't break an Invisibility spell, right? Granted, you do have to speak while casting - I take it that any nearby enemies (call it ~15 ft?) would be able to hear you and attack as if you had total concealment.

Many thanks to anyone courageous enough to brave this summoned creature: wall of text. (DR 10/short attention spans)

I really want to take Mad Monkeys - the thought of sending a swarm of monkeys at my opponents makes me giggle like a schoolgirl. But if Augment Summoning doesn't improve it, I might want to take different feats.


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Reynard_the_fox wrote:
the time to cast a creature is 1 round, meaning you spend a full round action, and the creature pops into existence at the start of your next turn.

Yes, Summon Monster has a casting time of 1 round. A full round action to cast, and you must concentrate through the entire round until the start of your next turn.

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Second, about swarms: swarms basically get one move action, and after that, anything inside them takes unavoidable damage and has to roll to avoid getting distracted (fortitude save).

I don't see anything restricting a swarm to a single move. They don't really have anything to do with their standard action, but a double move seems fine.

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Swarms take one AoO while moving to occupy a square (is this two if the other creature has a long reach?).

The swarm will provoke if it leaves a threatened square. Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. If it leaves a square or squares threatened by more than one opponent, it provokes from both of them.

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
If someone starts their turn outside of a swarm, and walks through it on their turn, are they impeded in any way? Does the swarm get any sort of AoO, or distraction, or at least act as difficult terrain?

"A swarm can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the swarm provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so."

You can move freely through the swarm. It doesn't threaten any squares, so you don't provoke. The swarm attack only happens to creatures in the swarm's space at the end of the swarm's move. Distraction only happens when you get damaged by the swarm.

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Third: does Augment Summoning affect swarms in any way?

Why wouldn't it?

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Fourth: does the Smite function on the celestial/abyssal templates do anything if the summoned creature has 11 or less charisma?

It still gets the damage bonus equal to HD against evil foes. Celestial Creatures

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Fifth: are the attacks listed under the various summons (e.g., 2 slams +3 [+5] (1d6+2) [1d6+4]) standard attacks or full attacks? If standard, do they get any sort of bonus for full attacking? If full, what is the standard attack?

That's a full attack. You can only make one attack with a standard action (barring weirdness like pounce or high level class abilities). The bonus for full attacking is making extra attacks. If they only get one attack, they generally choose whichever attack is best. The Crocodile for example has Melee bite +5 (1d8+4 plus grab) and tail slap +0 (1d12+2). In a full attack he would bite, (and get a free grab if it hits) and tail slap. If it moves or only gets a single attack, it would bite, since bite is better than tail slap.

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Sixth: the Summon Monster ability says that summoned monsters can't summon anything of their own, but the summoned creature: dretch (summon monster III; monster description is here - http://bit.ly/tyZiKt) has "summon (level 1, 1 dretch 35%)" as an ability. What's up with that?

An actual dretch can summon more dretches. A summoned dretch can't. Otherwise there would be a total flood of summoned creatures.

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Also, I if the dretch has "stinking cloud (DC 13)", that means the saving DC for its spell is 13, right? How does that compare to if you cast the spell yourself?

If the dretch casts stinking cloud, the fort save DC is 13. If you cast stinking cloud, the fort save DC is whatever your normal DC is for a level 3 conjuration spell.

"A saving throw against your spell has a DC of 10 + the level of the spell + your bonus for the relevant ability (Intelligence for a wizard, Charisma for a bard, paladin, or sorcerer, or Wisdom for a cleric, druid, or ranger). A spell's level can vary depending on your class. Always use the spell level applicable to your class."

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Seventh: Summoning doesn't break an Invisibility spell, right? Granted, you do have to speak while casting - I take it that any nearby enemies (call it ~15 ft?) would be able to hear you and attack as if you had total concealment.

Invisibility: "Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack..."

If you cast a spell with verbal components, or speak, or make noise, creatures could hear you. How far away depends on their Perception skill and general conditions.

Even if you don't cast, A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check.

Assuming it somehow knows which square you're in, it would still have a 50% miss chance due to total concealment.

Invisibility in the glossary has more info.

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
I really want to take Mad Monkeys - the thought of sending a swarm of monkeys at my opponents makes me giggle like a schoolgirl. But if Augment Summoning doesn't improve it, I might want to take different feats.

Mad Monkeys is SUPER good. Unlike Summon Swarm, you can control the monkeys.


Grick's notes are great, but just as an addendum on point #3:

Not only does a swarm gain the bonus to Str and Con, but the distraction ability's saving throw is Con-based. So, +2 to the distraction DC if you have the Augment Summoning feat.


Ditto.

Just want to also add about range:

Magic; spell range wrote:
A spell's range is the maximum distance from you that the spell's effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell's point of origin. If any portion of the spell's area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include the following.

I'm pretty sure that means a large summoned thing has to appear entirely within the range, not just one square of it with the rest of it extending past the max range - same way you can't make the centre of a fireball be at the extreme range limit to hit something past that.

Sovereign Court

OK, cool. Thanks a lot, guys.

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