A number of Dervish Dance and one-handed weapon in two hand related questions


Rules Questions


Sorry if this has been answered before, but I've never been involved with Pathfinder before. A gaming store just opened up near me last week and the owner will be running a game soon (all they have at the moment are Pathfinder books--they never even heard of my favorite RPG, Savage Worlds). I've played every version of D&D before, but this has been my first exposure to Pathfinder. I'm trying to come up with a character idea, and I had a few questions:

1) Dervish Dance states: "You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand." So, is there anything stopping me from wielding my Scimitar in two hands?

2) Assuming I can use it in two hands, I know that I would get 1.5x Power Attack damage, but would I get 1.5x my Dex mod to damage? I can see it argued that the 1.5x is a special Strength rule, but I could also argue that Dexterity would replace Strength in that calculation as well.

3) Regardless of the previous questions, if I use a Scimitar in two hands for my normal attacks, can I pull my hand off in time for it to count as having a free hand for the Magus' spell combat?

I'm a bit disheartened by how weak the non-Strength melee fighters seem in Pathfinder. I am missing all the little tricks that were available in 3.5 to give alternate stats to damage and AC. I have accepted that I probably can't avoid magic, so I think the Magus is going to be my class of choice, but I'd love it if I could safely do a build with just Dex and Int (maybe using Kensai for the Scimitar, if Dervish Dance works well). I like to fight smarter, not harder ;)


Welcome to Pathfinder! I'm on my phone, so I'm not intentionally being curt.

Yes. The text you quoted stops you from using a scimitar in 2 hands.

Second question isn't relevant :-)

Not sure about the third. I suspect that you can't do that, since Spell Combat requires an open hand no matter what.


And you can safely just do dex and int. Not every character needs to be super optimized.


Cheapy wrote:
Yes. The text you quoted stops you from using a scimitar in 2 hands.

I was not sure what qualified as carrying. I knew the feat was supposed to stop you from using other weapons or shields, but since it was the very same weapon, well, I was hoping to get a little more damage out of my investment. That's ok, I suppose. It probably means I can safely dump Strength, too, since I won't really need/get much benefit from Power Attack.

Cheapy wrote:
Not sure about the third. I suspect that you can't do that, since Spell Combat requires an open hand no matter what.

I guess it's a question of timing. I've seen elsewhere that dropping/adding a hand to a weapon is either a free or non-action. Spell combat is vague on the timing, though. It says you need a hand free, but doesn't say when you need it free.

Cheapy wrote:
And you can safely just do dex and int. Not every character needs to be super optimized.

I need them to be ;)

I like to play melee, and I need to close the caster-melee gap somehow. Being a partial caster is one way, and utilizing as many other tricks to get as much damage as I can is another. I figure I need as much help as I can get.

Unrelated question to the original 3:

I know in 3.X, there were niche ways to get your critical range doubled twice (i.e. so my Scimitar would threaten on a 12). Is there any way available in Pathfinder?


If it says you need it free, and doesn't qualify when you need it free, you need it free all the time.

The caster martial gap doesn't rear its ugly head until level 13+. If you are playing below then, then don't worry about it.

This isn't 3.5. It's only an arms race if you make it one. I always recommend not making it one, since then the other players, who didn't know it was an arms race, will get bored very quickly.

15-20 is the best a scimitar can give (with Keen or Improved Critical). I suspect that will never change, as that would just marginalize all non-18-20 base weapons.


Cheapy wrote:
The caster martial gap doesn't rear its ugly head until level 13+. If you are playing below then, then don't worry about it.

I will trust you, since I'm going entirely on reading the "prd," but I have to admit, excepting the Wild Shape changes, things don't look all that different on the overpowered caster front. They did at least make melee more interesting to play, if not all that much better.

Cheapy wrote:
This isn't 3.5. It's only an arms race if you make it one. I always recommend not making it one, since then the other players, who didn't know it was an arms race, will get bored very quickly.

This is fair. I don't know these people, so they might not really know how to exploit things. Thanks for the advice.

Grand Lodge

3) If, by your normal attacks, you mean the rounds when you aren't using spell combat and your AoO before and after you use spell combat, this should work. Spell combat is a full-round action that covers both your spellcasting and your weapon attacks for the round. One hand must be free for the entirety of that full-round action.

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